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Post by frozenhero on Aug 12, 2022 15:06:06 GMT
Every band has these cut-off points. Often enough they are defined by personnel changes, sometimes even clearly defined (Deep Purple Mark I, II and so on). Sometimes a group may stick together (like Rush) but change producers and you see some fans disregarding everything after 1982, 1988 or 1996.
And some may like the music again after another point, while another faction argues they've never returned to their earlier quality. (I call this the "critical fork".)
There are a number of factors why people feel like this. Familiarity, cultural conditions, and so on. One could write books about it and I suppose those already exist.
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Post by Quoincidence on Aug 12, 2022 15:08:51 GMT
Maybe just for TV playback purposes? Otherwise unneccessary af. And the intro is dire, nothing personal against young Richie, really, but the sound, and as I said, that's obviously not his fault is bland, flat and sounds exactly like the sample Apollo 440 did on "Stop the Rock" in '99 or '00, if anyone remembers. Ordered the album nontheless for my collection's sake. Edit: just saw that Cammy already mentioned the Appollo 440 reference in the 4th post or so but I couldn't be bothered to read through everything beforehand, my bad! It is what they are for. They were in Rossi's home-studio recently recording TV tracks, and obviously an opportunity was seen by either earMUSIC or Porter to monetise these tracks by releasing them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2022 15:35:25 GMT
Maybe just for TV playback purposes? Otherwise unneccessary af. And the intro is dire, nothing personal against young Richie, really, but the sound, and as I said, that's obviously not his fault is bland, flat and sounds exactly like the sample Apollo 440 did on "Stop the Rock" in '99 or '00, if anyone remembers. Ordered the album nontheless for my collection's sake. Edit: just saw that Cammy already mentioned the Appollo 440 reference in the 4th post or so but I couldn't be bothered to read through everything beforehand, my bad! It is what they are for. They were in Rossi's home-studio recently recording TV tracks, and obviously an opportunity was seen by either earMUSIC or Porter to monetise these tracks by releasing them. Awful word, the true meaning of which should be "lacking any artistic integrity".
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Post by freewilly on Aug 12, 2022 16:29:50 GMT
It is what they are for. They were in Rossi's home-studio recently recording TV tracks, and obviously an opportunity was seen by either earMUSIC or Porter to monetise these tracks by releasing them. Awful word, the true meaning of which should be "lacking any artistic integrity". Bingo!! And I think we've now finally hit the nail on the head. Whilst I love a lot of post 1982 stuff, the direction the band(brand) took after that wasn't artistic at all. Said it before, I cannot understand the mindset of Francis going solo in 1984 and trying to compete in the charts with Michael Jackson, George Michael etc and then the band trying to follow the sounds and trends at the time. Whilst I personally like some of it, it just smacked off, "Quick they're doing this so we have to" It was always about chasing the fame and money. It's why literally all of the fan base practically United in 2002-2004. It felt different and it felt the band(brand) was on the right road. Then, it done a 180
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Post by sqcollector on Aug 12, 2022 19:07:40 GMT
Awful word, the true meaning of which should be "lacking any artistic integrity". Why? Isn't a musician's job to write songs that people can enjoy? Sure, the musician should enjoy them either. But do they necessarily need to? Aren't there a lot of people doing jobs they don't like? Does that mean they perform them without integrity in their own area? I know I could write a song I don't really enjoy listening to, as a paid job, for someone else. Does that mean I performed my job without artistic integrity? Is artistic integrity only when you do something without caring if you're going to get paid or take profit out of it? You are a musician. Don't you get paid when you play? Don't you make money out of your skills and your art? Are you saying you do it without artistic integrity? I'm really asking. Perhaps you play for free, just so you can say you have artistic integrity. It's not really evil to try to sell songs a relatively famous music band records in a studio.
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Post by freewilly on Aug 12, 2022 19:41:00 GMT
Awful word, the true meaning of which should be "lacking any artistic integrity". Why? Isn't a musician's job to write songs that people can enjoy? Sure, the musician should enjoy them either. But do they necessarily need to? Aren't there a lot of people doing jobs they don't like? Does that mean they perform them without integrity in their own area? I know I could write a song I don't really enjoy listening to, as a paid job, for someone else. Does that mean I performed my job without artistic integrity? Is artistic integrity only when you do something without caring if you're going to get paid or take profit out of it? You are a musician. Don't you get paid when you play? Don't you make money out of your skills and your art? Are you saying you do it without artistic integrity? I'm really asking. Perhaps you play for free, just so you can say you have artistic integrity. It's not really evil to try to sell songs a relatively famous music band records in a studio. Why would a musician write a song they don't like, purely to make money? Sorry but, that's ridiculous... Example... One For The Money. I can bet my life on it that it wasn't originally written to how it ended up sounding. I'm sure it was written with artistic merit and the feeling of the songwriter but, they sold it down the river for the "in" sounds at the time. There is a good song in there and that's the point. They sold out to something that they thought that could make them money and tossed aside any sort of feeling or emotion to those songs! MT was a big hit and it might sound like a pile of rubbish to most of us but, you can tell by the lyrics and the vocal that Francis means it. And are you seriously suggesting artists do it for free, for their artistic feelings? Sorry but, that's insane. Personally, I work 3 jobs! But music is my main source of passion and release. Am I gonna go, set up for a gig, advertise it and not look for my money back? Because let me tell you something, Ive travelled to gigs out of my own pocket, played for free, poured my heart and soul into my songs and never got paid. I had to sleep rough because I didnt have any money to get home! Am I to put money into recording songs, pour my heart and soul out to the public, whilst paying through the nose for recording sessions, advertising etc and do it for free?? What about travel expenses etc? It's not evil to sell your stuff but, it's distasteful to claim you hate the past, dismiss it and its fans as nostalgia merchants and then cash in on it. It's also distasteful to throw away what your music or "product" means to you, with the mindset of half arsing it and going with the in and now. Its why the HT was brilliant and its why people started respecting the name again! It's also very distasteful to put Richie on the spot. No one and I mean no one can be Rick! Yet, here's a re-recording of Caroline, from the past that he apparently hates, for people to start the Rick comparisons again I'm sure you meant well and I'm sorry. That's just really annoyed me. And I shall say it, what TV appearances? When was the last time the band were on TV? Its coming to an end and to echo what was said previously, it's a handy way to get out of paying Rick, Alan and John
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Post by freewilly on Aug 12, 2022 19:48:29 GMT
Awful word, the true meaning of which should be "lacking any artistic integrity". Why? Isn't a musician's job to write songs that people can enjoy? Sure, the musician should enjoy them either. But do they necessarily need to? Aren't there a lot of people doing jobs they don't like? Does that mean they perform them without integrity in their own area? I know I could write a song I don't really enjoy listening to, as a paid job, for someone else. Does that mean I performed my job without artistic integrity? Is artistic integrity only when you do something without caring if you're going to get paid or take profit out of it? You are a musician. Don't you get paid when you play? Don't you make money out of your skills and your art? Are you saying you do it without artistic integrity? I'm really asking. Perhaps you play for free, just so you can say you have artistic integrity. It's not really evil to try to sell songs a relatively famous music band records in a studio. "I know I could write a song I don't really enjoy listening to, as a paid job, for someone else. Does that mean I performed my job without artistic integrity?" Yep
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2022 20:21:50 GMT
Awful word, the true meaning of which should be "lacking any artistic integrity". Why? Isn't a musician's job to write songs that people can enjoy? Sure, the musician should enjoy them either. But do they necessarily need to? Aren't there a lot of people doing jobs they don't like? Does that mean they perform them without integrity in their own area? I know I could write a song I don't really enjoy listening to, as a paid job, for someone else. Does that mean I performed my job without artistic integrity? Is artistic integrity only when you do something without caring if you're going to get paid or take profit out of it? You are a musician. Don't you get paid when you play? Don't you make money out of your skills and your art? Are you saying you do it without artistic integrity? I'm really asking. Perhaps you play for free, just so you can say you have artistic integrity. It's not really evil to try to sell songs a relatively famous music band records in a studio. You really did misunderstand my comment didn't you? I was expressing my opinion on the fact that a classic song which has been rerecorded yet again for TV appearance use, something I've done myself and played on and produced for many other artists, has been used as a money making commodity, presumably by the awful Porter who once again proves he knows no shame. Tracks like this have to be made available for TV studios by artists with a high profile, often invited on light entertainment shows, when playing live is never allowed. All musicians are fine with this as it enables us to highlight usually either a new single, album or tour. What we don't do generally is think "Let's put this on a pointless mishmash compilation along with some equally pointless remixes and see which fans are naive enough to buy it" I've made a living out of being paid to play in bands, royalties from solo albums and from albums I've collaborated on, produced, written and I would hope the somewhat eclectic nature of my back catalogue shows artistic integrity. I've been offered the chance to write and produce the winner of The Voice Germany's first single three times and each time I've refused. I was offered the chance to be one of the mentors on The Voice Senior and turned it down, when all of these projects would have paid very handsomely. So yes I think my personal and musical integrity after almost 50 years as a pro musician is still intact.
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Post by sqcollector on Aug 12, 2022 20:27:53 GMT
Yet, here's a re-recording of Caroline, from the past that he apparently hates, for people to start the Rick comparisons again But why are we assuming he hates Caroline? You're saying he would hate Caroline, by generalizing he hates the past. As far as I know (which is just a conjecture of what I see, really), Francis seems to like Caroline very much. He seems very fond of it. He recorded it for his own solo album in 2010. He played it live during his solo tour, along with other Quo tracks that he doesn't play with Quo. All of this makes me think he likes Caroline. The fact that he re-recorded with the Status Quo of today (along with what I just said) makes me think it's something he'd actually enjoy doing. If he can make money out of it, good for him. But even if he'd re-recorded due to a contractual obligation and then he could make money out of it, well, good for him. Now, to claim he does so devoid of artistic integrity sounds a bit abusive and over the top. You either enjoy his work or you don't and it's fine either way.
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Post by freewilly on Aug 12, 2022 21:37:55 GMT
Yet, here's a re-recording of Caroline, from the past that he apparently hates, for people to start the Rick comparisons again But why are we assuming he hates Caroline? You're saying he would hate Caroline, by generalizing he hates the past. As far as I know (which is just a conjecture of what I see, really), Francis seems to like Caroline very much. He seems very fond of it. He recorded it for his own solo album in 2010. He played it live during his solo tour, along with other Quo tracks that he doesn't play with Quo. All of this makes me think he likes Caroline. The fact that he re-recorded with the Status Quo of today (along with what I just said) makes me think it's something he'd actually enjoy doing. If he can make money out of it, good for him. But even if he'd re-recorded due to a contractual obligation and then he could make money out of it, well, good for him. Now, to claim he does so devoid of artistic integrity sounds a bit abusive and over the top. You either enjoy his work or you don't and it's fine either way. Just on this, he stated himself he hated the past and hated "70% of that era" so what are we supposed to believe? It's not contractual agreement at all. If he wishes to re record previous songs, for the right reasons, I don't care. But he hates nostalgia, he hates the past so why is he trying to replicate it? It's all about mechanical royalties! Fine! Don't care but, if someone and we both know he is, always denounces the past and wants to move forward, how can you blame people for taking that point of view? It's not abusive or over the top either. The guy broke up a band for his own ego because he thougut he knew better, didn't write anything and hadn't a clue what to do for 3 or 4 years (Bridges was a rip off that Andy suggested) and along comes Perfect Remedy. So that point is dead in the water and anyone trying to defend that body of work is a mystery to me. Their own producer begged for it not to be released!! Bottom line is there are several versions of Caroline they could use without recording it again. And I ask again, what TV shows is it being used for? He's already stated he has no interest in another Quo album so again, what are we supposed to think? For the record, on the band break up, he couldn't deal with Alan standing up to him. Big deal!! Compare that to ANY other band break up and you'll see how petulant it was!
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Post by cammythemortonfan on Aug 12, 2022 22:24:16 GMT
Here’s the bottom line , for me .
The sound of the opening guitar is like Apollo 440 amd takes a bit of getting used to.
I really like the rest of the track. There are subltel little differences which make this re-recording very interesting , such as the verse chops also being heard during the chorus
Leon’s drumming is great- he really drives this song along.
The track is guitar driven.
When miming in telly, it’s great they will do it to a version they all play on.
Had this not been commercially available and I’d heard it in telly, I’d have been wishing I could download it !!
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Post by quovadis on Aug 12, 2022 22:39:19 GMT
I'm kind of glad rossi has no need for a new album cause to me again imo the boogies gone sorry but it has all imo of coarse and I no lots n lot luv backbone which I'm happy for I just dont
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mortified
4500 Timer
Posts: 5,861
Favourite Quo Album: Hello!
Favourite other bands.: Talking Heads, Rolling Stones, Sheryl Crow, Gary Numan, Alabama 3, ZZ Top, Paul van Dyk, Jeff Beck, Bowie, Gerry Rafferty, Band of Skulls, UFO, S.A.H.B
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Post by mortified on Aug 13, 2022 7:15:20 GMT
I really like the rest of the track. There are subtle little differences which make this re-recording very interesting , such as the verse chops also being heard during the chorus This is one of the points I was trying to make. That we are 'reduced' to analysing something from the point of view of comparing it to a previous version. Or even several previous versions. Rather than commenting on something that we haven't heard before. I'm personally not all that interested in going down that road. Although, conversely, here I am I'd never question the artistic integrity of Francis or any other musician. Not from sitting behind a keyboard in the comfort of my own home and not having produced anything of any artistic merit in my life. Although I once tried to dye my goatee blue Not sure that counts though. It's been a good, long run. My entire adult life and a bit more. And whatever anyone thinks, without Francis there is no Quo. Never would have been. Not now; not ever. Maybe he's not the hero in person I wanted him to be when I was younger. But who is? He also doesn't want to be, which is much more important. I will buy this compilation because that's what I do. I may even listen to some of it. So sad old collector or not, I tick the sales box. Happy to comply. And I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm looking forward to the "Tunes & Talk" thing more than the next Quo gig. I believe I may hear something different. And probably Caroline 👍
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 14, 2022 17:55:19 GMT
Contrary to a lot of the TV talk, this re-recording has given them some radio exposure (I heard it a couple of days ago on HR1, and it's possible other stations will play it too - "will it replace the original" is a pointless question since I can't remember when I've heard that on the radio), and pushing it on Spotify won't hurt either. In fact, I wouldn't even have returned to this board at this point if I hadn't seen that single in my release radar playlist and gotten curious how folks here deal with it So I see it as a way of raising some interest prior to a tour, plus also giving people a version of the song that doesn't sound out of place in a playlist with other current recordings (just due to the recording quality).
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Post by blagult on Aug 16, 2022 12:56:56 GMT
I think this is a great version. It’s fresh and subtle enough to feel different than the other remakes imo. For me 2nd best version. Original number 1.
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