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Post by wolfman on Dec 7, 2020 22:56:05 GMT
I've no idea how to explain what one is. I know when a Quo song is a shuffle. I know Feetwood Mac sometimes do them (Don't Stop), Eric Clapton did them. Presumably Quo got the idea from F Mac and Chicken Shack? Who else does shuffles? Where do they come from ? Had a quick Google and there's not much there easy to find JC once said that only he and Mick Fleetwood could play a shuffle properly. Any shuffle info appreciated 🍻👍🎸 some of the early Fleetwood mac work is cool dude
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quodec
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Twelve bar blues is now alright.
Posts: 1,218
Favourite Quo Album: Blue For You
Favourite other bands.: early AC/DC, Angel City, Blackfoot, Rose Tattoo, Slade
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Post by quodec on Dec 7, 2020 23:14:38 GMT
Here's an American (I presume) spending 20 minutes teaching us how to play basic '12 Bar Blues', which you would assume would be the basis of Quo songs like Paper Plane and Caroline, but no, his 12 bar blues is actually the basic shuffle that we are discussing here. Hence the probable lack of transparency on these different rhythms as mentioned by the OP. And as we've discussed the shuffle so far, then technically what are Quo playing in PP and Caroline? I always assumed it was 12 bar boogie and that WYW was the shuffle. Am I confused??
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Post by twentytwenty on Dec 8, 2020 12:26:30 GMT
Haha absolutely not, just calling it how I see it. I would have said exactly the same thing no matter who would have said something like that How I see it; what you're talking about is just different playing styles. All of them can play the shuffle, as every damn drummer in the world. What makes Coghlans shuffle so much 'better' than the others if we're talking quo drummers is that his shuffle beat was sloppy and almost shifted towards a straight beat, as his straight beats often would almost shift towards shuffle. And that's what made FF so groovy imo, while the others are (more) clinical. But this is only in my point of view though of course, you guys may have another conclusion! So basically, you're agreeing with JC's words? No
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Post by MrWaistcoat on Dec 8, 2020 18:27:34 GMT
Back to John....he certainly doesn't come across as egoistic. The youtube link above from quodec appears to show we may not always be talking about the same thing when we think we are. Maybe John has something more in mind when talking about a drum shuffle than the simple explanations here?
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matt
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 1,010
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Post by matt on Dec 8, 2020 20:15:43 GMT
Can be fast - I saw the light Can be slow - end of railroad. You could have used Railroad for both cases ahah Though neither of I Saw The Light and the first part of Railroad is particularly fast. Quo could go into a fast shuffle, as they showed us on Mean Girl, Tune To The Music and Down The Dustpipe. this is very true! Sure there are faster versions - I just didn't spend long thinking about it
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matt
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 1,010
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Post by matt on Dec 8, 2020 20:17:40 GMT
I do think Spud is being a little hyperbolic. I can play a shuffle and I'm not even a drummer.
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Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Dec 8, 2020 20:37:11 GMT
... And they have yet other fast shuffle songs but that were played in the drums just by beating on the tempo, probably because they were too fast for Coghlan. I think the fastest is Oh Baby. When I play it on drums, I always try to play with the shuffle rhythm and it's very hard.
How do you play Oh Baby as a shuffle?
I've no idea what the time siggie is, I always think of shuffle as 6/8 time with the middle note of each triplet missing. (IK think I read that in a guitar book somewhere.) I understood it at the time ...
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 9, 2020 0:39:26 GMT
How do you play Oh Baby as a shuffle? I've no idea what the time siggie is, I always think of shuffle as 6/8 time with the middle note of each triplet missing. (IK think I read that in a guitar book somewhere.) I understood it at the time ...
It's that! Shuffle can be 6/8 (two tempos per bar) or 12/8 (four tempos per bar), typically. Oh Baby is just that, like the other tracks, but even faster. So John just hits on the tempo, most of the time. He does use the bass drum and does the fills by using the third eighth note of the tempo, in some parts. But doing the shuffle (instead of just hitting on the tempo) throughout the whole song is complicated.
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Post by dennis on Dec 9, 2020 12:09:52 GMT
I'm not really claiming that this will shed any light on the issue, but it's a nice listen anyway! I hope that was enjoyable, regardless
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Post by wolfman on Dec 9, 2020 12:13:28 GMT
I'm not really claiming that this will shed any light on the issue, but it's a nice listen anyway! I hope that was enjoyable, regardless its a tad dreary Dennis..
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Post by dennis on Dec 9, 2020 13:01:56 GMT
I'm not really claiming that this will shed any light on the issue, but it's a nice listen anyway! I hope that was enjoyable, regardless its a tad dreary Dennis.. Glad you enjoyed it - which version did you find dreariest?
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Post by fretbuzzzzz on Dec 9, 2020 17:07:26 GMT
My interpretation of a typical Quo shuffle and possibly JC's interpretation can be found in many tracks but very effective in the likes of 4500X. That moment in the song at around the 4:40 mark where they slide into the shuffle rhythm in all its glory. Then the shuffle continues when Rossi starts the line 'sure want to stay here etc etc'.
Shuffles are specific rhythms and 12 bar blues have specific numbers of bars and phrases.
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Post by QuocaQuola1 on Dec 9, 2020 18:33:18 GMT
Whoever said Oh Baby's a shuffle hasn't a baldy what they're on about, as is the idea of a shuffle being 12/8 and the likes, and whoever was getting stuck in to the chap with the 12 bar guitar lesson.
- 12 bar blues is shuffled, from day 0 up until the rock n roll boom in the 50s, which then becomes 12 bar rock n roll.
- a shuffle's in 4/4, the difference being instead of it being 'dunk dunk dunk dunk', there's a looseness added with an 'and' or 'a' between each count: 'dunk-a dunk-a dunk-a dunk-a'
- see my above point with regards to Oh Baby. For a fast shuffle, see Slow Train. Oh Baby isn't one.
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 9, 2020 18:42:19 GMT
Whoever said Oh Baby's a shuffle hasn't a baldy what they're on about Mate, just to be clear, Oh Baby is 12/8. John plays the drums hitting only on the tempo. Each tempo has a ternary subdivision (slow down the song, if you must, and count it), like shuffle. Technically, the songs is not played as a shuffle, though.
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Post by twentytwenty on Dec 9, 2020 19:10:34 GMT
Whoever said Oh Baby's a shuffle hasn't a baldy what they're on about, as is the idea of a shuffle being 12/8 and the likes, and whoever was getting stuck in to the chap with the 12 bar guitar lesson. - 12 bar blues is shuffled, from day 0 up until the rock n roll boom in the 50s, which then becomes 12 bar rock n roll. - a shuffle's in 4/4, the difference being instead of it being 'dunk dunk dunk dunk', there's a looseness added with an 'and' or 'a' between each count: 'dunk-a dunk-a dunk-a dunk-a' - see my above point with regards to Oh Baby. For a fast shuffle, see Slow Train. Oh Baby isn't one. The rhythm of Oh Baby is constructed by a shuffle.
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