gerh
Grizzled Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 2,907
Favourite Quo Album: 'Hello' [and 'Quo Live']
Favourite other bands.: Zappa, Kansas, Rush, Deep Purple, Yes, Richard Thompson, Horslips, Rory Gallagher, Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest etc etc. [ANYONE but Kiss!]
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Post by gerh on Dec 9, 2020 19:43:08 GMT
I do think Spud is being a little hyperbolic. I can play a shuffle and I'm not even a drummer. Wooo! Sounds sore 😲 I think you can probably get a cream for it tho'. G
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Post by dennis on Dec 9, 2020 19:57:23 GMT
I do think Spud is being a little hyperbolic. I can play a shuffle and I'm not even a drummer. Wooo! Sounds sore 😲 I think you can probably get a cream for it tho'. G Aye, but can you get someone to apply it for you?!
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Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Dec 9, 2020 20:13:05 GMT
How do you play Oh Baby as a shuffle? I've no idea what the time siggie is, I always think of shuffle as 6/8 time with the middle note of each triplet missing. (IK think I read that in a guitar book somewhere.) I understood it at the time ...
It's that! Shuffle can be 6/8 (two tempos per bar) or 12/8 (four tempos per bar), typically. Oh Baby is just that, like the other tracks, but even faster. So John just hits on the tempo, most of the time. He does use the bass drum and does the fills by using the third eighth note of the tempo, in some parts. But doing the shuffle (instead of just hitting on the tempo) throughout the whole song is complicated. Thank you. But regrettably that doesn't mean anything to me, as to me "tempo" means the speed of the music; not something I can conceptualise as "a tempo" as a quantity in a bar. Is this a drumming term?
PS John plays one-two one-two or one two three four throughout the song, just chucking in a bit of syncopation on a very small number of occasions. The thing that establishes something other than a straight rhythm is the rhythm guitar (or possibly both sutiars, I'm not clear about that) and occasionally John follows that, but not very often. I wouldn't call it a shuffle, though.
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 9, 2020 20:20:00 GMT
Thank you. But regrettably that doesn't mean anything to me, as to me "tempo" means the speed of the music; not something I can conceptualise as "a tempo" as a quantity in a bar. Is this a drumming term? Sorry, I should have said "beat", instead of "tempo", here, my bad! English is not my main language; I thought I could say "tempo" in this case, but guess not ahah So, 6/8 has two beats per bar; 12/8 has four beats per bar.
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Post by QuocaQuola1 on Dec 9, 2020 23:32:13 GMT
Whoever said Oh Baby's a shuffle hasn't a baldy what they're on about Mate, just to be clear, Oh Baby is 12/8. John plays the drums hitting only on the tempo. Each tempo has a ternary subdivision (slow down the song, if you must, and count it), like shuffle. Technically, the songs is not played as a shuffle, though. No you're really over-thinking this but still not grasping what a shuffle is in essence. A shuffle is in 12/8 if it's played in 12/8. Traditionally, 12/8's a swing, and a swing is completely different from a shuffle. And again, there is nothing that either swings nor shuffles in Oh Baby. It's like trying to justify that God Save The Queen or Master of Puppets are shuffles. And again, there's a difference in what is classed as a shuffle and what's classed as a loose feel. Oh Baby has a loose feel, it's not a shuffle.
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Post by QuocaQuola1 on Dec 9, 2020 23:34:03 GMT
To answer to the original post in simple terms:
if it sounds like Rosanna, Tush, Waterfront, Spirit In The Sky, etc. it's a shuffle.
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matt
Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 984
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Post by matt on Dec 9, 2020 23:43:53 GMT
Oh baby is 4/4 but the riff is mainly over three beats which is what gives it it’s interest
Most of the time is a 3/4 slow shuffle.
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 10, 2020 0:10:31 GMT
Oh baby is 4/4 but the riff is mainly over three beats which is what gives it it’s interest Could be a 4/4 with triplets here and there. But what gives it the 12/8 feel is the drums, in several parts. Most of the time is a 3/4 slow shuffle. Since I like to be strictly correct, Most Of The Time is 9/8. Three beats per bar, each with a ternary subdivision. Warning Shot is 3/4.
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 10, 2020 0:26:25 GMT
No you're really over-thinking this but still not grasping what a shuffle is in essence. A shuffle is in 12/8 if it's played in 12/8. Traditionally, 12/8's a swing, and a swing is completely different from a shuffle. And again, there is nothing that either swings nor shuffles in Oh Baby. It's like trying to justify that God Save The Queen or Master of Puppets are shuffles. And again, there's a difference in what is classed as a shuffle and what's classed as a loose feel. Oh Baby has a loose feel, it's not a shuffle. Completely disagree with the way you're saying what you want to say, like bringing God Save The Queen or Master of Puppets, because those don't hint shuffle the slightest. There's no need to try to insult or devalue my competences. But I'm not here to discuss music composition. I listened to Oh Baby again, very carefully (I really love this track), and, indeed, if it was to be transcribed, to be the most correct would be 12/8 for me. It's not shuffled, because John (nor anyone) doesn't play it like shuffle, no, probably due to its speed, like I said previously. But I will agree with you on the "loose feel", given how sloppy the drums playing is in some parts.
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 10, 2020 0:38:32 GMT
Actually, no. I listened again. Pay attention to Francis' guitar. It clearly has a ternary subdivision.
Edit: and pretty clear on Rick's too.
Edit2: Not to mention the solo.
Yeah, this is obviously 12/8. At least, it's obvious it has ternary subdivison.
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Post by fretbuzzzzz on Dec 10, 2020 0:41:19 GMT
Francis doing quite a bit of chat about shuffles and 12 bar, from the 5 min to 7 min marks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 1:14:00 GMT
Dancing on the head of a pin.
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stringybob
Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 315
Favourite Quo Album: Quo
Favourite other bands.: Many and varied
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Post by stringybob on Dec 10, 2020 1:24:33 GMT
I've read some daft stuff on here but the suggestion that 'Most Of The Time' is in 9/8 has to be one of the daftest. That mad bit at the end of 'Supper's Ready', that's in 9/8. Dave Brubeck's 'Blue Rondo A La Turk' is in 9/8. Compare and contrast.
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Post by sqcollector on Dec 10, 2020 2:02:21 GMT
9/8 is like 3/4, except you have ternary subdivision for each beat. That's the standard 9/8: 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 The song you mention seems to use 9/8 in a non-standard way: 1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2-3 (and some variations of it). Two songs that have the same time signature won't necessarily sound alike. With MOTT I'd also accept if you'd say it's 6/8. I understand the suggestion for 3/4, though. Because, 3/4 with the swing feel, is exactly the same as the standard 9/8.
Why the need to call my post daft, though? I will not insult your post just because what you said is not entirely correct (as I explained on the paragraph above).
Anyway, I know when to step out. I'm open to a decent discussion. I studied music for many years and music is still part of my life. I love music. I'm more than happy to explain my points of view, if someone is interested.
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Post by QuocaQuola1 on Dec 10, 2020 2:33:38 GMT
No you're really over-thinking this but still not grasping what a shuffle is in essence. A shuffle is in 12/8 if it's played in 12/8. Traditionally, 12/8's a swing, and a swing is completely different from a shuffle. And again, there is nothing that either swings nor shuffles in Oh Baby. It's like trying to justify that God Save The Queen or Master of Puppets are shuffles. And again, there's a difference in what is classed as a shuffle and what's classed as a loose feel. Oh Baby has a loose feel, it's not a shuffle. Completely disagree with the way you're saying what you want to say, like bringing God Save The Queen or Master of Puppets, because those don't hint shuffle the slightest. There's no need to try to insult or devalue my competences. But I'm not here to discuss music composition. I listened to Oh Baby again, very carefully (I really love this track), and, indeed, if it was to be transcribed, to be the most correct would be 12/8 for me. It's not shuffled, because John (nor anyone) doesn't play it like shuffle, no, probably due to its speed, like I said previously. But I will agree with you on the "loose feel", given how sloppy the drums playing is in some parts. No, see first off there was absolutely nothing insulting about anything I've said. Yes you can bring all your music theory jargon to the table but music's about feel despite what a book says, and there is absolutely nothing in the feel of Oh Baby that's even remotely in the ball-park of being a shuffle, a point which you're now going back on. My bringing of other classic songs within the rock community was in aid to explain clear as day in the simplest terms what a shuffle isn't as opposed to what it is. If you don't like simplicity, then being a fan of Status Quo and moreso arguing over the heads of a 12/8 time signature on a Quo fan forum is both ironic and contradiction to the highest degree. But I shall apologise and leave it there if my previous points made towards those who might not have an instrumental or more formal and educative approach to music offended you in some quite frankly unfathomable way.
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