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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 1, 2018 10:46:42 GMT
British certainly is a thing. Fish n chips is not English or Scottish, it's a very British cultural thing. As is music. Manic Street Preachers could be from any part of Britain, that they are Welsh puts nobody off Real ale, queing, good manners. British. Half the people of Scotland also regard themselves as British for these sort of reasons. Not fake....perfectily understandable. Much of the resentment felt by many Welsh, Scots and Irish towards "England" really stems from resentment agains the English (London dominated) upper and political classes. This is perhaps even more widely felt in northern england - an observation often lost on the nationalists. We really are very muddled. "TEAM GB" at the Olympics includes Northern Ireland, so should be Team UK. We still have people waiving the British flag when England play. England has no song, we are expected to sing god save the queen - the divisive british national anthem. Then our England football fans (nearly all from London) sing british songs like rule britannia, and anti-irish songs. My Dad's Irish, my grandparents Welsh....I guess I just feel like I'm of these islands. But yes I agree with Dennis, I always thought of Quo as a london band, not an english one. Such a shame (and can't be fixed) that we can't come together as a people and unite. Most countries on the planet can and do when it's the world cup. I think it goes a long way to explaining how these islands are the home of football, has the best league in the world but we never win anything Having moved from Merseyside to the midlands some years back, I am stunned at the support and enthusiasm for England here. Flags in windows (the wrong one, often, but hey nevermind), crowded pubs for the match. I once saw somebody cheer in a Liverpool pub when England scored. Everybody looked at this person in surprise. It wasn't even a liverpool player that scored. Few would have watched anyway if no redmen were playing. "Steady on lad, it's only ******* England". It all quietened down, and the normality of ambivalence returned Not sure how or why these islands can unite over football. As they have different leagues. The only thing that unites Scottish football and English football is the decline in home grown talent playing for the clubs. If I was Scottish, I’m not sure I’d support England.
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Post by curiousgirl on Jul 1, 2018 10:50:01 GMT
I think feeling an emotional connection to the term British is affected by your age. I can remember going abroad on holiday as a child and we told people we were English. And then somewhere down the line, was it the 80s onwards ??, we were British. It means little to me in terms of identity. I think the term gained popularity during the rise of multiculturalism to unite all the different ethnic groups that live on these islands. And of course in the 90s, there was the Cool Britannia phase which is when I think it being British really took hold. btw - I've always thought of the Manics as Welsh first. Never thought of them as British. But this is only my view. We all see things differently.
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Post by curiousgirl on Jul 1, 2018 11:09:07 GMT
As for the OP question, I never thought of them in any of those terms. They were from South London, like me. Almost, the older boys next door.
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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 1, 2018 11:09:54 GMT
I think feeling an emotional connection to the term British is affected by your age. I can remember going abroad on holiday as a child and we told people we were English. And then somewhere down the line, was it the 80s onwards ??, we were British. It means little to me in terms of identity. I think the term gained popularity during the rise of multiculturalism to unite all the different ethnic groups that live on these islands. And of course in the 90s, there was the Cool Britannia phase which is when I think it being British really took hold. btw - I've always thought of the Manics as Welsh first. Never thought of them as British. But this is only my view. We all see things differently. A few years ago I had a German teaching student working with me. I was teaching the causes of World War One. I was teaching nationalism. He was surprised that English children have little understanding of Nationalism. He said German children would have a much greater sense of nationalism. We discussed the reasons and I said Nationalism in England has a bad connotation. To many they associate it with the right and unsavoury groups. Also in the North East, we see ourselves as separate to the South. Thatcherism has left us angry and ‘left behind’.
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Post by curiousgirl on Jul 1, 2018 11:19:51 GMT
Yep, agree paradiseflats, and that is also why I think the term British was encouraged over being English. However, I've just flicked through a book by George Orwell who writes so well on identity and class. Even in the 1940s, when this essay was published he identified 6 names to identify these islands. England, Britain, Great Britain, the British Isles, the United Kingdom and occasionally Albion. Comes from his essay "The Lion and the Unicorn"
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Post by dennis on Jul 1, 2018 11:23:26 GMT
Yep, agree paradiseflats , and that is also why I think the term British was encouraged over being English. However, I've just flicked through a book by George Orwell who writes so well on identity and class. Even in the 1940s, when this essay was published he identified 6 names to identify these islands. England, Britain, Great Britain, the British Isles, the United Kingdom and occasionally Albion. Comes from his essay "The Lion and the Unicorn" Not to mention Blighty!
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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 1, 2018 11:25:19 GMT
Yep, agree paradiseflats , and that is also why I think the term British was encouraged over being English. However, I've just flicked through a book by George Orwell who writes so well on identity and class. Even in the 1940s, when this essay was published he identified 6 names to identify these islands. England, Britain, Great Britain, the British Isles, the United Kingdom and occasionally Albion. Comes from his essay "The Lion and the Unicorn" Not to mention Blighty! Only public school boys refer to Blighty... Dear old Blighty. Sounds like 5 go...
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Post by wolfman on Jul 1, 2018 12:27:05 GMT
the mighty quo..once a englishmans band...who we shared with the uk and rest of the world...but now ...just a tribute band..who cant sell out a small theatre in middlesborough..
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Post by Gaz on Jul 1, 2018 12:49:08 GMT
As for the OP question, I never thought of them in any of those terms. They were from South London, like me. Almost, the older boys next door. Hey CG, when you hear Francis yabbin’ on like on the beginning of the ROLD EP, do you not hear a strong cockney accent like I do? Is it the way you speak? Accents are quite amazing really as we don’t take notice ‘till someone picks up on it. Do you pick up on Francis’s cockney accent?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 17:44:18 GMT
Such a shame (and can't be fixed) that we can't come together as a people and unite. Most countries on the planet can and do when it's the world cup. I think it goes a long way to explaining how these islands are the home of football, has the best league in the world but we never win anything People in Argentina won't have to listen about Brazil if they win the World Cup. Nor will the Germans about France. It is a very unique situation that multiple, clearly defined and culturally different nations share a TV and radio network. God forbid if England actually make it to the final, let alone win it. The evidence is there as to how bad the situation can get. It will be wall to wall coverage. And it's alright saying "ignore it" as has been the case for 40+ years but the media know how to antagonise people and there will riots if England win the WC. Football isn't some niche sport like cricket or rugby where, incidentally, England have been successful in recent times. Anyway, back to the topic. Let's see if Quo will embrace their Englishness should England get to the final... I wouldn't put it past Porter.
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Post by MrWaistcoat on Jul 1, 2018 19:13:56 GMT
British certainly is a thing. Fish n chips is not English or Scottish, it's a very British cultural thing. As is music. Manic Street Preachers could be from any part of Britain, that they are Welsh puts nobody off Real ale, queing, good manners. British. Half the people of Scotland also regard themselves as British for these sort of reasons. Not fake....perfectily understandable. Much of the resentment felt by many Welsh, Scots and Irish towards "England" really stems from resentment agains the English (London dominated) upper and political classes. This is perhaps even more widely felt in northern england - an observation often lost on the nationalists. Not everyone who supports Scottish independence is a "nationalist". An observation often lost on the English. Fair, except I didn't say Scottish, I just said nationalist. Lots of them in England, particularly right wing types in the South.
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Post by MrWaistcoat on Jul 1, 2018 19:17:26 GMT
We really are very muddled.British certainly is a thing. Fish n chips is not English or Scottish, it's a very British cultural thing. As is music. Manic Street Preachers could be from any part of Britain, that they are Welsh puts nobody off Real ale, queing, good manners. British. Half the people of Scotland also regard themselves as British for these sort of reasons. Not fake....perfectily understandable. Much of the resentment felt by many Welsh, Scots and Irish towards "England" really stems from resentment agains the English (London dominated) upper and political classes. This is perhaps even more widely felt in northern england - an observation often lost on the nationalists. "TEAM GB" at the Olympics includes Northern Ireland, so should be Team UK. We still have people waiving the British flag when England play. England has no song, we are expected to sing god save the queen - the divisive british national anthem. Then our England football fans (nearly all from London) sing british songs like rule britannia, and anti-irish songs. My Dad's Irish, my grandparents Welsh....I guess I just feel like I'm of these islands. But yes I agree with Dennis, I always thought of Quo as a london band, not an english one. Such a shame (and can't be fixed) that we can't come together as a people and unite. Most countries on the planet can and do when it's the world cup. I think it goes a long way to explaining how these islands are the home of football, has the best league in the world but we never win anything Having moved from Merseyside to the midlands some years back, I am stunned at the support and enthusiasm for England here. Flags in windows (the wrong one, often, but hey nevermind), crowded pubs for the match. I once saw somebody cheer in a Liverpool pub when England scored. Everybody looked at this person in surprise. It wasn't even a liverpool player that scored. Few would have watched anyway if no redmen were playing. "Steady on lad, it's only ******* England". It all quietened down, and the normality of ambivalence returned Not sure how or why these islands can unite over football. As they have different leagues. The only thing that unites Scottish football and English football is the decline in home grown talent playing for the clubs. If I was Scottish, I’m not sure I’d support England. Agree, we can't. Although Wales doesn't have it's own league, and we don't split up for the Olympics.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 20:11:56 GMT
Not sure how or why these islands can unite over football. As they have different leagues. The only thing that unites Scottish football and English football is the decline in home grown talent playing for the clubs. If I was Scottish, I’m not sure I’d support England. Agree, we can't. Although Wales doesn't have it's own league, and we don't split up for the Olympics. Wales has its own league. The Olympics doesn't attract the same sort of hatred, bitterness, whatever you want to call it... mainly because there isn't the image of a fat, gloating, thuggish manchild associated with someone winning.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 21:25:56 GMT
Such a shame (and can't be fixed) that we can't come together as a people and unite. Most countries on the planet can and do when it's the world cup. I think it goes a long way to explaining how these islands are the home of football, has the best league in the world but we never win anything People in Argentina won't have to listen about Brazil if they win the World Cup. Nor will the Germans about France. It is a very unique situation that multiple, clearly defined and culturally different nations share a TV and radio network. God forbid if England actually make it to the final, let alone win it. The evidence is there as to how bad the situation can get. It will be wall to wall coverage. And it's alright saying "ignore it" as has been the case for 40+ years but the media know how to antagonise people and there will riots if England win the WC. Football isn't some niche sport like cricket or rugby where, incidentally, England have been successful in recent times. Anyway, back to the topic. Let's see if Quo will embrace their Englishness should England get to the final... I wouldn't put it past Porter. "riots" get a grip.... can you hear yourself? what sort of waste of oxygen would actually be so unhinged to riot ?
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Post by curiousgirl on Jul 1, 2018 21:35:56 GMT
As for the OP question, I never thought of them in any of those terms. They were from South London, like me. Almost, the older boys next door. Hey CG, when you hear Francis yabbin’ on like on the beginning of the ROLD EP, do you not hear a strong cockney accent like I do? Is it the way you speak? Accents are quite amazing really as we don’t take notice ‘till someone picks up on it. Do you pick up on Francis’s cockney accent? Francis does not have a cockney accent. He has a South London accent and there is a slight difference which you wouldn't pick up but I can hear it. I used to be able to spot the difference between South, North and East London accents. But now they've virtually disappeared. There is a Carribean influence on inner London accents from the youth, who are trying to sound streetwise. I'm guessing that Rap music/hip hop had an influence. Otherwise, a more neutral English accent amongst the middle classes. To be a cockney you have to be born within the sound of Bow Bells, a church in East London. And that is now where near Forest Hill/Peckham where Francis, John and Alan grew up.
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