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Post by frozenhero on Jul 6, 2016 13:53:03 GMT
I would especially in this context clarify a version or versions of song(s) as a different set of musicians (collectively) playing and singing the songs that an original set of musicians (collectively) wrote, produced, sang and played themselves. I didn't miss any remark. I responded to the comments that I felt were pertinent. Its up to me, after all, to decide which those might be. The relevance of CUOY is quite clear and has been dealt with in detail many times before and requires no further elaboration The majority of what you have written is based on your opinion, and which is of course fair enough, but much of which has either been covered before in previous post exchanges and/or we are simply don't agree on. Therefore there seems little point in replying further As to the first point, I guess we can put it down to misunderstanding. For me a version is anything that differs from the original. The live version of 4500x is a different animal to the studio version. Likewise, CQ have played different "versions" of the same songs over the years - some down to the personnel changes, others not. That's semantics; we all have our ways of putting something. Still think your reaction was unnecessarily harsh. The relevance of CUOY isn't any more clear to me than the relevance of Rain, Caroline, TW, SBYBIL, ROLD, RAOTW, WYW, DD, BFM, ITAN or HYB. All those songs have been played a million times. Whether one thinks these should have not played that often is entirely down to personal taste. As a matter of fact, I happen to like CUOY (plus a couple of others from the list) but I would never disagree with the notion that these songs have been overplayed by the band at the expense of lots of other good songs (new and old). So why you try to lay that point on me is still beyond me. I was referring to predestinate* live songs by the FF that were never played live at all or very rarely (I Saw the Light, What To Do, Mad About the Boy). For CQ, you could make points about many songs that would have worked as well as CUOY or better. Also, whether something is 'by numbers' or not is of course similarly subjective, as the recurring discourse about Solid Gold shows. Besides, as I prefer to think of myself as a nice and easy-going person (which you will likely not agree with), I won't accuse you or anybody else of threadcrapping (as I have been chiming in on threads as well and by way of which the thread took a different direction, sometimes to my own discontent) but I would still like to hear if you have anything to say about the original intended purpose of this thread  *"predestinate" in this context means written for the stage, as opposed to complicated and/or with a feel that's hard to reproduce on stage |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 16:21:52 GMT
If they couldn't even manage to get Alan's wishes (DTIM, Unspoken Words, ST etc.) in despite Francis already making it clear that it would be the last chance to do so? I'm not buying it. The FF reunion, in my eyes, suffered from the exact same problems CQ (and, at least on paper, the original band in the 70s as well) have been suffering from. Francis couldn't wait for the FF to end so he had no inclination to make changes to the set. He refused to do the jig in Roadhouse Blues, even when Rick asked him on stage. As for CUOY, it gets the flak it does because it has been in the set for 14 years straight. Most of the other songs you mention (Rain, Caroline, TW, SBYBIL, ROLD, RAOTW, WYW, DD, BFM, ITAN or HYB) are understandable mainstays because they were hits. CUOY is an album track. Nothing more. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 16:54:39 GMT
If they couldn't even manage to get Alan's wishes (DTIM, Unspoken Words, ST etc.) in despite Francis already making it clear that it would be the last chance to do so? I'm not buying it. The FF reunion, in my eyes, suffered from the exact same problems CQ (and, at least on paper, the original band in the 70s as well) have been suffering from. Francis couldn't wait for the FF to end so he had no inclination to make changes to the set. He refused to do the jig in Roadhouse Blues, even when Rick asked him on stage. As for CUOY, it gets the flak it does because it has been in the set for 14 years straight. Most of the other songs you mention (Rain, Caroline, TW, SBYBIL, ROLD, RAOTW, WYW, DD, BFM, ITAN or HYB) are understandable mainstays because they were hits. CUOY is an album track. Nothing more. That is all very close to my own view.
I think we all have idealistic set lists, but as ideals is exactly where they remain.
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 2, 2016 20:51:42 GMT
If they couldn't even manage to get Alan's wishes (DTIM, Unspoken Words, ST etc.) in despite Francis already making it clear that it would be the last chance to do so? I'm not buying it. The FF reunion, in my eyes, suffered from the exact same problems CQ (and, at least on paper, the original band in the 70s as well) have been suffering from. Francis couldn't wait for the FF to end so he had no inclination to make changes to the set. He refused to do the jig in Roadhouse Blues, even when Rick asked him on stage. As for CUOY, it gets the flak it does because it has been in the set for 14 years straight. Most of the other songs you mention (Rain, Caroline, TW, SBYBIL, ROLD, RAOTW, WYW, DD, BFM, ITAN or HYB) are understandable mainstays because they were hits. CUOY is an album track. Nothing more. So has The Oriental (OK, it wasn't played as early on). Besides, ROLD was only a "hit" because it was reissued as a live version and Rain isn't all that well known, at least not where I live. But that's all splitting of hairs. They had a lot of hit singles they never played live or only in abridged medley versions. Certainly playing CUOY seemed like a more attractive option than playing Jam Side Down, which was the 'hit' from HT. But there are so many contradictions involved, it's hard to pin it down. Other artists also play album tracks... forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/seemingly-random-album-tracks-that-bands-play-regularly-live.502170/I know about the jig and it's one of the things I'll never understand about the man. However, he played a very different set on his solo tour and has been very complimentary about some songs they never, or rarely played live, so I still have my doubts whether he's really the only one to blame. I've started to think that Rick is at least equally responsible, and from the looks of it he seems far less interested in developing as an artist compared to Francis. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 10:08:36 GMT
Francis couldn't wait for the FF to end so he had no inclination to make changes to the set. He refused to do the jig in Roadhouse Blues, even when Rick asked him on stage. As for CUOY, it gets the flak it does because it has been in the set for 14 years straight. Most of the other songs you mention (Rain, Caroline, TW, SBYBIL, ROLD, RAOTW, WYW, DD, BFM, ITAN or HYB) are understandable mainstays because they were hits. CUOY is an album track. Nothing more. So has The Oriental (OK, it wasn't played as early on). Besides, ROLD was only a "hit" because it was reissued as a live version and Rain isn't all that well known, at least not where I live. But that's all splitting of hairs. They had a lot of hit singles they never played live or only in abridged medley versions. Certainly playing CUOY seemed like a more attractive option than playing Jam Side Down, which was the 'hit' from HT. But there are so many contradictions involved, it's hard to pin it down. Other artists also play album tracks... forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/seemingly-random-album-tracks-that-bands-play-regularly-live.502170/I know about the jig and it's one of the things I'll never understand about the man. However, he played a very different set on his solo tour and has been very complimentary about some songs they never, or rarely played live, so I still have my doubts whether he's really the only one to blame. I've started to think that Rick is at least equally responsible, and from the looks of it he seems far less interested in developing as an artist compared to Francis. I would say CUOY has lasted so long in the set because it is distinctive and can be replicated well live. JSD is very Quo-by-numbers and would be similar to TPAOY in that it would require Francis to reach the high notes, which he has a problem with. Why Quo don't play more newer tracks, only they know, but I think part of the reason is that the albums they come from hardly set the charts alight at the time they were released. |
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 3, 2016 10:13:27 GMT
So has The Oriental (OK, it wasn't played as early on). Besides, ROLD was only a "hit" because it was reissued as a live version and Rain isn't all that well known, at least not where I live. But that's all splitting of hairs. They had a lot of hit singles they never played live or only in abridged medley versions. Certainly playing CUOY seemed like a more attractive option than playing Jam Side Down, which was the 'hit' from HT. But there are so many contradictions involved, it's hard to pin it down. Other artists also play album tracks... forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/seemingly-random-album-tracks-that-bands-play-regularly-live.502170/I know about the jig and it's one of the things I'll never understand about the man. However, he played a very different set on his solo tour and has been very complimentary about some songs they never, or rarely played live, so I still have my doubts whether he's really the only one to blame. I've started to think that Rick is at least equally responsible, and from the looks of it he seems far less interested in developing as an artist compared to Francis. I would say CUOY has lasted so long in the set because it is distinctive and can be replicated well live. JSD is very Quo-by-numbers and would be similar to TPAOY in that it would require Francis to reach the high notes, which he has a problem with. Why Quo don't play more newer tracks, only they know, but I think part of the reason is that the albums they come from hardly set the charts alight at the time they were released. They did play more from Perfect Remedy than from In Search of the Fourth Chord, though! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 10:23:46 GMT
So has The Oriental (OK, it wasn't played as early on). Besides, ROLD was only a "hit" because it was reissued as a live version and Rain isn't all that well known, at least not where I live. But that's all splitting of hairs. They had a lot of hit singles they never played live or only in abridged medley versions. Certainly playing CUOY seemed like a more attractive option than playing Jam Side Down, which was the 'hit' from HT. But there are so many contradictions involved, it's hard to pin it down. Other artists also play album tracks... forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/seemingly-random-album-tracks-that-bands-play-regularly-live.502170/I know about the jig and it's one of the things I'll never understand about the man. However, he played a very different set on his solo tour and has been very complimentary about some songs they never, or rarely played live, so I still have my doubts whether he's really the only one to blame. I've started to think that Rick is at least equally responsible, and from the looks of it he seems far less interested in developing as an artist compared to Francis. I would say CUOY has lasted so long in the set because it is distinctive and can be replicated well live. JSD is very Quo-by-numbers and would be similar to TPAOY in that it would require Francis to reach the high notes, which he has a problem with. Why Quo don't play more newer tracks, only they know, but I think part of the reason is that the albums they come from hardly set the charts alight at the time they were released. The same could be said for countless other songs besides CUOY. There has never been any reasonable excuse for the permanent presence of this song or others that have never left the set, over dozens and dozens of other songs that are "distinctive and can be replicated well live". |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 10:35:26 GMT
I would say CUOY has lasted so long in the set because it is distinctive and can be replicated well live. JSD is very Quo-by-numbers and would be similar to TPAOY in that it would require Francis to reach the high notes, which he has a problem with. Why Quo don't play more newer tracks, only they know, but I think part of the reason is that the albums they come from hardly set the charts alight at the time they were released. They did play more from Perfect Remedy than from In Search of the Fourth Chord, though! Yes, I think its true that CQ were at least a bit more receptive to set changes and inclusivity of songs from new albums back then - whether one liked those songs or not.
I would probably have gone to more CQ gigs, than I have, even if they had put songs in there that would not be personal choices. The encouraging thing might have been that gigs and future tours would have had held spontaneity and surprises. So even if one set didn't appeal so much, it would have been fine because next time around it would likely be a better shuffle of the pack. |
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 3, 2016 10:47:02 GMT
They did play more from Perfect Remedy than from In Search of the Fourth Chord, though! Yes, I think its true that CQ were at least a bit more receptive to set changes and inclusivity of songs from new albums back then - whether one liked those songs or not.
I would probably have gone to more CQ gigs, than I have, even if they had put songs in there that would not be personal choices. The encouraging thing might have been that gigs and future tours would have had held spontaneity and surprises. So even if one set didn't appeal so much, it would have been fine because next time around it would likely be a better shuffle of the pack. Shuffle of the pack... I see what you did there  I'd still be interested in what kind of setlist you would like to hear from CQ, by the way. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 10:57:02 GMT
Yes, I think its true that CQ were at least a bit more receptive to set changes and inclusivity of songs from new albums back then - whether one liked those songs or not.
I would probably have gone to more CQ gigs, than I have, even if they had put songs in there that would not be personal choices. The encouraging thing might have been that gigs and future tours would have had held spontaneity and surprises. So even if one set didn't appeal so much, it would have been fine because next time around it would likely be a better shuffle of the pack. Shuffle of the pack... I see what you did there I'd still be interested in what kind of setlist you would like to hear from CQ, by the way. I'm not motivated towards fantasy lists when they have zero chances of happening. Writing a list would simply remind me of what could/should have been.
For what it is worth though, it would comprise a decent weighting towards the RYTD, UTI and ISOTFC albums. Then the likes of Blues and Rhythm and the title song from HT, plus DTG and Frozen Hero from QPQ.
But tbh, as posted above, I would simply have embraced change ! There are songs from the so called perceived 'weaker' albums that I would much rather listen to than the same old.
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 3, 2016 11:11:52 GMT
Shuffle of the pack... I see what you did there I'd still be interested in what kind of setlist you would like to hear from CQ, by the way. I'm not motivated towards fantasy lists when they have zero chances of happening. Writing a list would simply remind me of what could/should have been.
For what it is worth though, it would comprise a decent weighting towards the RYTD, UTI and ISOTFC albums. Then the likes of Blues and Rhythm and the title song from HT, plus DTG and Frozen Hero from QPQ.
But tbh, as posted above, I would simply have embraced change ! There are songs from the so called perceived 'weaker' albums that I would much rather listen to than the same old.
Fair enough if you don't want to come up with something that resembles a setlist, but that's exactly what I created this thread for. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 11:33:43 GMT
It was an honest answer to your question. You asked me what kind of set list and I answered by stating the albums I would include.
Just because I haven't stated a precise set list (for the valid reason I gave) does not make my reply invalid to the thread.
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 3, 2016 11:44:08 GMT
It was an honest answer to your question. You asked me what kind of set list and I answered by stating the albums I would include.
Just because I haven't stated a precise set list (for the valid reason I gave) does not make my reply invalid to the thread.
I appreciate that you gave some indication on what you would include. The thinking behind my starting this thread was that if the band really want to change things for one last time, they need to completely restructure their set and not just swap out one song here or there. I tried hard to group songs together that flow well and think about a set's internal dynamics. By doing so I thought I could get more setlists like that and perhaps, after a long and healthy discussion, could serve the band with some valid options. Unfortunately not too many are/were interested in going that far. The goal was to provoke constructive criticism - something that the band, if they'd read it, could actually try out and hopefully use. Not criticizing you, as you did provide some ideas, but I thought I'd explain some more of my reasoning. |
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Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Aug 3, 2016 17:23:39 GMT
My guess is, someone likes them.
CUOY isn't a favourite of mine, but it's punchy and works well live, and on the right night it can be very good, even though it is an indifferent song in other ways.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 11:40:45 GMT
I would say CUOY has lasted so long in the set because it is distinctive and can be replicated well live. JSD is very Quo-by-numbers and would be similar to TPAOY in that it would require Francis to reach the high notes, which he has a problem with. Why Quo don't play more newer tracks, only they know, but I think part of the reason is that the albums they come from hardly set the charts alight at the time they were released. The same could be said for countless other songs besides CUOY. There has never been any reasonable excuse for the permanent presence of this song or others that have never left the set, over dozens and dozens of other songs that are "distinctive and can be replicated well live". Just offering a thought as to why CUOY has stayed. I wouldn't say there are dozens and dozens of other songs, least not from recent (i.e. 1986-) albums. Those that HAVE worked, not played for years; Anniversary Waltz One Man Band Rock Til You Drop Restless Twenty Wild Horses Old Time Rock N Roll All Stand Up Heavy Traffic Solid Gold Belavista Man could have been re-introduced if Quo were worried about taking a chance on obscure, untried tracks. It could be argued that songs were plucked from nowhere for the Aquostic, FF and Francis solo tours, but they worked because of the context in which they were chosen. No pressure, experimental, blank canvas to choose from, etc. I doubt BEL and OB would have lasted long in the set had there been no FF reunion. Suppose it would have been a change for one year at least. |
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