|
Post by curiousgirl on Jan 4, 2016 10:01:58 GMT
I heard this definition of nostalgia from over the weekend. A character in the show Mad Men described it as "pain from an old wound" The actual original greek word is broken down into 2 parts. nostos - to return home and algia - a painful condition. Put them together and the Ancient Greeks said that they meant "a painful yearning to return home." And hearing it described like this, and remember both the euphoria and then sadness of the reunion tours, I can now understand what Francis means by nostalgia. Maybe he's a greek scholar after all. Playing their back catalogue but in a new way is not quite the same as trying to recreate the past. And that will be why he won't see doing that as nostalgic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 10:26:44 GMT
I agree with you, CG. You cannot recreate the past. You can only yearn for certain things that you once used to love and admire, but trying to make them come "alive" again will most likely fail and lead to disappointment and embarrassment. So Francis cannot but play his band's back catalogue in a "new" way. Times have changed, he has changed, the band members have changed. I'm not sure if he considered playing with John and Alan a "pain from an old wound", but maybe it was just that to him. Some things should better stay in the past for the simple reason that you can't recreate them. That aside, I really loved seeing the original band play live again , but I think I can understand Francis and what he said about "nostalgia". Contrary to what he later said about the reunion gigs, and going by the way he played and looked on stage at the time, he must have enjoyed himself and that nostalgic part of the reunion tremendously.
|
|
|
Post by curiousgirl on Jan 4, 2016 11:04:11 GMT
Lovely thoughts Inna. Having made my OP, I could endure the pain once more for the FF. So bring it on, pretty please Francis and Quo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 12:38:52 GMT
I'm not going to be quite so kind to Francis.
Nostalgia encompasses a rather a whimsical acceptance of looking back at great things in the past, that are perceived as being unable to be re-created again in the future.
Pains from old wounds, as excuses for being inhibited from continuing to re-visit a past success, are often self-inflictedly placed there in the mind as a way of avoiding risk of failure in attempting to re-visit those successes, when it is quite possible to make a simple choice not to be affected by them, and release that burden
Its true that the past cannot be re-created to the letter - times change and bodies age. However, previous instinct and understanding between a group of people does not go away despite the passage of time and the natural aging processes.
Instinct and understanding, can rise above self inflicted state of mind. Its my opinion that Francis, of the four of them, is the one who is least able to accept this because he places too high standards both on himself (and others) and therefore becomes too easily scared of failure. Hence he makes the choices he does, to put up barriers, and exaggerate previous difficulties, as an excuse so as to avoid making decisions which in his mind are a much bigger barrier and risk, than exists in reality
If four people can recognise the limitations that time and age place on them, then there is always every possibility that re-creation of previous successes can be assured. Much as the reunion gigs proved. This gives Francis even less excuse to keep using past problems as on going restrictions
Instinct and understanding add up to more than just nostalgia of what used to be. Revisiting the past, as the FF did, made such occasions more than nostalgia. They have achieved much more than that - they have an updated version of their previous success.
Accepting limitations leads to the freedom of being able to make choices - and this process is both is empowering and liberating. On that basis Francis (and the others) can always rise above any barriers, past or present, at any time. Its simply choosing to do so.
Barriers, through fear of failure and being too self critical, and critical of others, are often a self inflicted part of the mind which act to reduce the chances of further success through eliminating all choices available.
Francis can choose phantom fears (and restrict himself to the safety first comforts of nostalgia) or he can choose freewill to exorcise those fears and achieve the successes that his own overly high standards actually prevent him from achieving.
|
|
|
Post by lazypokerblues on Jan 4, 2016 13:09:16 GMT
I never felt that the reunion shows were being nostalgic, other than the use of Jackie's intro tape.
The Hello! drape was new - the lighting rig was new, the setlist was new.
In as much as the original band had ceased to exist a long time ago, and we have become so used to the Rossi & Parfitt show, the FF gigs were more like loosely rehearsed jamming sessions, running through some old classics.
The ecstatic audience reaction just proved to me how much we wanted to see that line-up play together again. I can't imagine what Francis and Rick must have felt like, with the change in audience reaction. And how must they be feeling now? Now that it's gone back to normal? I think I'd miss it.
|
|
|
Post by Whoppa Choppa on Jan 4, 2016 15:10:08 GMT
If playing songs in a "new" way is excused with not wanting to be nostalgic, what is the label if you just play them in a bad way?
|
|
|
Post by curiousgirl on Jan 4, 2016 15:18:44 GMT
Interesting responses CL and LPB.
fwiw - I started this thread because I had no idea what the word originally meant. And that it was linked to pain - even a mild pain at that. I do agree that the word in its modern usage has been watered down. But I found this discovery really interesting and wanted to share it with you all.
And I was also heart broken by Francis' derisory response to the joy from many fans who attended. Its taken me a while to accept.
In hindsight for me, it was pure nostalgia in the origin meaning of the word. It made me homesick for a time lost. And it brought me great pleasure to relive those gigs. And now mild sadness that we might never experience it again.
**************
As for Francis' enjoyment of the gigs being the truth of what how he felt. I would like to be believe that. What I can believe is that on stage, with the love of the crowd and the music, he enjoyed it. As a performer of sorts myself, I can believe that. But I can also believe that he didn't enjoy the rest of it. The bits in between off stage, during the tour. Which is a real shame.
And I'm sure there's is a bit of sour grapes too.
|
|
|
Post by Victor on Jan 4, 2016 16:13:51 GMT
Pains from old wounds, as excuses for being inhibited from continuing to re-visit a past success, are often self-inflictedly placed there in the mind as a way of avoiding risk of failure in attempting to re-visit those successes, when it is quite possible to make a simple choice not to be affected by them, and release that burden
Interesting points you made, Catlady. I can agree with parts of it. I just don't know if it's really always a matter of making a simple choice though. Some things from the past can be very hurtful and the process of actually being able to make the above mentioned choice can take years in some cases, depending on personality, character and yes, also the will to change it or not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 16:25:06 GMT
I agree with you, Catlady, that "pains from old wounds" shouldn't be used as excuses to prevent us from working with people again who maybe inflicted those wounds on us ages ago. I think it's always healthier to get "burdens", as you call them, out of the way and try to either forget about them (which is probably not the best way to get over things) or to talk them out of the way (which I consider the only right thing to do, but also the hardest). I have to disagree, though, that "previous instinct and understanding between a group of people does not go away despite the passage of time...". It does. I know it does. And time and age and distance are all responsible for that. You can go back in time together and remember things that were good. You may laugh about old jokes, remember this and that situation from days gone by. You may agree about things, see eye to eye. But underneath all this there might remain a strange feeling that it's not really the same anymore. There might be something that irks you. There might be this and that they said that rubs you the wrong way, things that you're not willing to accept anymore and go ahead with. You don't want to be like that anymore. You're a different person now, and you want to make your own choices and not feel responsible for ghosts from the past. You get all this with friends on a regular basis of course, but I think it's different when you meet people again you were once close to, but somehow lost track of, and probably after some disagreement in the past. There's something between you and them, and I think it's some lack of trust, a wound that maybe healed, but is still tender. You don't want it to be ripped open again, and you're simply not able to act as if nothing has come between you and them in all those years. You simply don't want them in your life again forever. I haven't discussed nostalgia with Francis so I don't know what he really thinks about his and Alan's past (and present), and I don't want to make assumptions. I think we'll just have to accept his reasons for not being prepared to do any more gigs with the original band. He took off in one direction with different band members some 30 years ago, and Alan took a different road. Francis developed a different style and most probably a different way of thinking. They can reminisce, of course, and it will be great for a while. They also played some mean reunion gigs, and everything seemed fine, but underneath all this there will be something that keeps Francis from doing more. I don't know if it's about "fears" and "comforts". Maybe he's just fine with what he's achieved with the 'other' band and their music? As I said before, he played brilliantly on the reunion tours, and he seemed focussed, but at ease at the same time. He made quite a few jokes and laughed a lot on stage. The things he later said about nostalgia and refusing to tour with Alan and John again, no-one could really grasp after what we had seen previously on stage. I'm sorry about that, but I'd never slag him off for having this opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 17:02:42 GMT
@ Victor and Inna. It does come across reading back later as a philosophical ramble but really I should have made it clearer that the focus of it really was in the context of Francis and the FF. I think he works in the ways that I describe based on what I observe from the outside. Of course its just an opinion though and I could be completely wrong. But that was my interpretation of the conversation so far in the thread.
In context of the FF I do think that the instinct and understanding has remained very key and central, despite the FF members being 30 yrs apart. It is my view, for the reasons given, that Francis has excessively downplayed the importance and significance of it.
It may not be a factor true of all working and indeed personal type relationships, but I think it is true of the FF
Otherwise I essentially agree with most of the points you made - the opinion I gave certainly is not true of all of us by any means. As stated I should perhaps have made that clearer
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 18:52:02 GMT
I feel a different take on things and even philosophical ramble keep a discussion alive. I think your interpretation of the conversation is fine. So no worries there, Catlady. It would be quite boring if we all looked in the same direction and always saw things the same way, wouldn't it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 19:04:14 GMT
I feel a different take on things and even philosophical ramble keep a discussion alive. I think your interpretation of the conversation is fine. So no worries there, Catlady. It would be quite boring if we all looked in the same direction and always saw things the same way, wouldn't it? Indeed so
|
|
|
Post by Victor on Jan 4, 2016 19:39:22 GMT
I feel a different take on things and even philosophical ramble keep a discussion alive. I think your interpretation of the conversation is fine. So no worries there, Catlady. It would be quite boring if we all looked in the same direction and always saw things the same way, wouldn't it? Good post and agreed
|
|
|
Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Jan 4, 2016 23:11:41 GMT
Going home pain ... homesickness.
You know "passion" means suffering.
And no good deed goes unpunished, they say ...
|
|
|
Post by colmfoley on Jan 5, 2016 3:31:11 GMT
If playing songs in a "new" way is excused with not being nostalgic, what is the label if you just play them in a bad way? Current Quo......
|
|