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Post by madturk on Jul 1, 2018 10:43:55 GMT
FR said in an interview that RP came up with the intro for Caroline. RP is not credited as a song writer on this song.
So my question is where do you draw the line?
John Paul Jones has said in interviews he regrets not being more pushy. He says now there are various parts in many Page / Plant songs which he wrote but never pushed for a credit.
David Gilmour has said there's a lot of Floyd stuff which is credited to Waters which he and Wright came up with.
I suppose different bands divvy it up in different ways.
But I know I would regret not being credited for co-writing a lucrative song.
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Post by dennis on Jul 1, 2018 11:21:03 GMT
I always thought the way the Stranglers worked it was best, they all wrote & arranged songs to varying degrees but they were all credited to the whole band Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield. Perhaps if all Quo songs had been credited to Lancaster/Rossi/Coghlan/Parfitt/Young they would have kept the focus on the music instead of the royalties & we might have only had ten songs on Rockin' All Over The World.
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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 1, 2018 12:24:21 GMT
I always thought the way the Stranglers worked it was best, they all wrote & arranged songs to varying degrees but they were all credited to the whole band Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield. Perhaps if all Quo songs had been credited to Lancaster/Rossi/Coghlan/Parfitt/Young they would have kept the focus on the music instead of the royalties & we might have only had ten songs on Rockin' All Over The World. Ego and money kick in. Nearly always. It is an issue when they all have to have a number of songs on the album. Across the years, you can see weaker songs ending up on the albums, this isn’t just a Status Quo thing. i must admit I don’t know the rules. Francis isn’t credited for Backwater but the solo was surely his work.
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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 1, 2018 15:34:23 GMT
I always thought the way the Stranglers worked it was best, they all wrote & arranged songs to varying degrees but they were all credited to the whole band Black/Burnel/Cornwell/Greenfield. Perhaps if all Quo songs had been credited to Lancaster/Rossi/Coghlan/Parfitt/Young they would have kept the focus on the music instead of the royalties & we might have only had ten songs on Rockin' All Over The World. Coldplay (boak) do the same, apparently. Chris Martin writes all the stuff, but always credits it to the whole band, because as he says, the song isn't complete without their input and creativity. The royalties are split evenly. He says it also stops in-fighting and petty jealousies. Fair points to make. Yes unlike the Van Halen brothers who made Michael Anthony to sign away his song writing credits before he was allowed to tour with the band a decade or so ago. They used to be split across the four members.
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Post by cammythemortonfan on Jul 2, 2018 14:17:21 GMT
Generally the credit will be with the melody and the lyrics.
It’s seem mad as intro of Caroline is so essential to the song as a whole.
But likewise, Francis doesn’t get a credit for his solo on eg Whatever You Want.
It can be a minefield - I think the guy who came up with the keyboard bit of Whiter Shade of Pale didn’t get a credit - this became a court case as it was his bit that became a ring tone.
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Post by cammythemortonfan on Jul 2, 2018 20:33:32 GMT
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Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Jul 2, 2018 21:13:51 GMT
Generally the credit will be with the melody and the lyrics. It’s seem mad as intro of Caroline is so essential to the song as a whole. But likewise, Francis doesn’t get a credit for his solo on eg Whatever You Want. It can be a minefield - I think the guy who came up with the keyboard bit of Whiter Shade of Pale didn’t get a credit - this became a court case as it was his bit that became a ring tone.
And I think his performance rights were timing out ...
I was split on this, because it's always been the instrumentalist's job to come up with instrumentation (or whategver it's called) for the song, and they get recording and performance royalties, but not songwriting rights. Without the song, there ain't anything. But it is true that a few songs owe part of their success to a really fine instrumental passage which wasn't part of the original song.
The person in the most annoying situation is the session musician/singer who is paid a flat fee for a performance whith is then a massive hit. I don't think they have a leg to stand on, though.
The judge said he could have some royalties, but only forward from the time of the court case. I think that's how they left it. It would still be a useful income stream.
PS just looked it up and it was overturned on appeal because he'd left it too long ...
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Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Jul 2, 2018 23:34:13 GMT
Something similar happened around Maggie Riley and Moonlight Shadow (Mike Oldfield). Not sure what happened.
I think it was more credible in Clare Torrey's case as she was hired in and asked to improvise - that piece of music was her singing, not a song with her singing in it.
I'm not sure what the actual legal position is, though.
It may be down to what was agreed at the time.
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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 3, 2018 7:23:47 GMT
The person in the most annoying situation is the session musician/singer who is paid a flat fee for a performance whith is then a massive hit. I don't think they have a leg to stand on, though.
They do...Clare Torry (who did those amazing vocals on The Great Gig in the Sky on "Dark Side of the Moon") was paid just £50 at the time she recorded it. As you know, DSOTM went on to become one of the best-selling albums of all time. She pursued Floyd through the legal system, and Floyd settled out of court, as far as I remember. Session players DO have some legal recourse, it seems. Aye didn’t the brats on Another brick in the wall, claim cash for their singing. No idea if they won.
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Post by paradiseflats on Jul 3, 2018 7:25:17 GMT
I'm not denying the court case happened. Still doesn't change the fact that he nicked it off a long dead classical composer. Hasn’t Andy lifted a couple of old jigs into Quo songs. Whatever you want and Burning Bridges come to mind. No copyright there either.
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Post by fretbuzzzzz on Jul 8, 2018 12:10:20 GMT
The person in the most annoying situation is the session musician/singer who is paid a flat fee for a performance whith is then a massive hit. I don't think they have a leg to stand on, though.
They do...Clare Torry (who did those amazing vocals on The Great Gig in the Sky on "Dark Side of the Moon") was paid just £50 at the time she recorded it. As you know, DSOTM went on to become one of the best-selling albums of all time. She pursued Floyd through the legal system, and Floyd settled out of court, as far as I remember. Session players DO have some legal recourse, it seems. I wonder how well Andy Bown did financially with his time with Pink Floyd on tour/live album and also with Roger Water's solo stuff?
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Post by fretbuzzzzz on Jul 8, 2018 12:55:36 GMT
Even in the early days there were some in the band who were protective over their own songs, with an eye on royalties. Francis has talked about the time Rick asked him if he could write the ending to 'Black Veils...'. No thanks said Francis, as far as he was concerned the song was his baby.
On that basis it is hard to imagine that the band did start to work as a Quo-operative a few years later and when the magic did start to happen in the studio between them all.
I think it was Colin Johnson who later said to Francis and possibly Bob Young about being flexible with credits to keep things sweet within the band.
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Post by frozenhero on Jul 11, 2018 12:03:41 GMT
They do...Clare Torry (who did those amazing vocals on The Great Gig in the Sky on "Dark Side of the Moon") was paid just £50 at the time she recorded it. As you know, DSOTM went on to become one of the best-selling albums of all time. She pursued Floyd through the legal system, and Floyd settled out of court, as far as I remember. Session players DO have some legal recourse, it seems. I wonder how well Andy Bown did financially with his time with Pink Floyd on tour/live album and also with Roger Water's solo stuff? Better than the Floyd members, I think! (No joke - Rick Wright had been fired from the band during the Wall sessions, so he was paid as a session player for his contribution to the live shows, and actually earned money from it - unlike the remaining members, who lost money due to the expensive staging and the financial turmoil before!) More to the point: The liner notes of the recent deluxe editions include some interesting comments, e.g. Bob writing parts of 4500x and Softer Ride too.
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Post by freewilly on Jul 11, 2018 12:18:36 GMT
All 4/5 of them wrote 4500 and Slow Train. Alan wrote the lyrics to The Wild One but, Francis arranged it into the song it became. Francis and Bob wrote the verses and chorus of ROLD but, Alan and Rick had a hand in the other instrumental parts.
Writing credits mean fuck all
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viza
Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 412
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Post by viza on Jul 14, 2018 21:58:04 GMT
Long Legged Linda is a interesting story to because it's obvious that Rick didn't take part of the writing.
I don't think a guitar solo is worth credits but a riff that works like a hook do to me. The solo of Whatever you want sounds as a Pip Williams composition to me.
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