uwe
Rocker Rollin'
Other than Quo? Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Blue Öyster Cult, Wishbone Ash, Be-Bop Deluxe, Sparks ...
Posts: 100
|
Post by uwe on Oct 9, 2021 13:29:23 GMT
Like refusing to ever even attempt - in more than 55 years of lead guitar playing - a proper minor key solo! Francis Rossi - the Brit lead guitarist with the "happiest" solos That wasn't a fact I knew I've always thought Quo music was happy music, does this help explain why? Does this mean the Rythem section was always major chords too? So also a Rick thing? Quo are - by a stretch - the most major key-y Brit hard rock outfit ever. A band like Purple was mostly minor (Woman From Tokyo being the exception, hence it sounds so cheerful, but Blackmore really didn't start writing and playing in major keys until he donned those tights for his missus and became a minstrel). I'd say that 80% or more of their material is in major keys, with most othe bands it's the other way around. But what makes Rossi really idiosyncratic is that he solos in major scales even in minor key songs. Case in point is his solo in Don't Think It Matters, in principle a dark minor key number. Come the solo, the Blackmores, Gilmours and Iommis of this world would have delivered a dark, moody minorish solo ... And what does Francis do? He changes the key from D minor to D major and joyously romps through it. Nobody else does that. People generally do the reverse: On any Rolling Stones or Oasis album you'll find major key songs with minor key solos, but not the other way around. Where does this come from you may ask? I remember reading a Lancaster interview many years ago where he perceptively stated that Quo's major melodies were their unique selling point. I have to claw this together from memory, but Alan observed something along the lines of: "Initially I think, Francis didn't know what the hell he was doing, it was just his style to play major scale solos, he didn't really know minor scales. But over time it became a trademark of ours, all those folk melodies over our hard rhythms, it made us very accessible." Subconciously, Rossi's lifelong love affair with C&W music (which is nearly always in major keys) might have come into play here. Ironically, I also believe that the (unjustified) derision that Quo were/are often met with in musicians' und rock critics' circles is down to them playing overwhelmingly in major. It's hard to be taken serious if major keys is your main thing. That is why the Beach Boys, brilliant as Brian Wilson was, never won the respect The Beatles had (who had more than a fair share of major key music, but not to the exclusion of minor key work). Major key music is often viewed as lightweight and dispensable.
|
|
|
Post by The Lord Flasheart on Oct 9, 2021 14:49:26 GMT
That wasn't a fact I knew I've always thought Quo music was happy music, does this help explain why? Does this mean the Rythem section was always major chords too? So also a Rick thing? Quo are - by a stretch - the most major key-y Brit hard rock outfit ever. A band like Purple was mostly minor (Woman From Tokyo being the exception, hence it sounds so cheerful, but Blackmore really didn't start writing and playing in major keys until he donned those tights for his missus and became a minstrel). I'd say that 80% or more of their material is in major keys, with most othe bands it's the other way around. But what makes Rossi really idiosyncratic is that he solos in major scales even in minor key songs. Case in point is his solo in Don't Think It Matters, in principle a dark minor key number. Come the solo, the Blackmores, Gilmours and Iommis of this world would have delivered a dark, moody minorish solo ... And what does Francis do? He changes the key from D minor to D major and joyously romps through it. Nobody else does that. People generally do the reverse: On any Rolling Stones or Oasis album you'll find major key songs with minor key solos, but not the other way around. Where does this come from you may ask? I remember reading a Lancaster interview many years ago where he perceptively stated that Quo's major melodies were their unique selling point. I have to claw this together from memory, but Alan observed something along the lines of: "Initially I think, Francis didn't know what the hell he was doing, it was just his style to play major scale solos, he didn't really know minor scales. But over time it became a trademark of ours, all those folk melodies over our hard rhythms, it made us very accessible." Subconciously, Rossi's lifelong love affair with C&W music (which is nearly always in major keys) might have come into play here. Ironically, I also believe that the (unjustified) derision that Quo were/are often met with in musicians' und rock critics' circles is down to them playing overwhelmingly in major. It's hard to be taken serious if major keys is your main thing. That is why the Beach Boys, brilliant as Brian Wilson was, never won the respect The Beatles had (who had more than a fair share of major key music, but not to the exclusion of minor key work). Major key music is often viewed as lightweight and dispensable. Ill admit i'm no muso so major and minor keys I don't know much about them. However going O/T for a sec, what sort of Solo's are Brian May's they always sound bright though thats more to the Red Special. Thing is it's Brian's solos that made me a Queen fan. Even though I acknowledge the brilliance of Freddie. Same goes for Quo, It was the guitar rhythms and the sound of Francis Solos that made me a Quo fan.
|
|
|
Post by MrWaistcoat on Oct 9, 2021 14:55:05 GMT
uwe Really interesting post, thx As for Dont think it matters, would be interesting to hear a tribute band keep the minor key for the solo so we can compare. The reason I prefer Quo to everyone else is that while the rock kick can be as good elsewhere, the boogie workouts take me to a euphoric spot no other band can. The music does make me happy in ways the soulful blues rock I love can't. I'm just wondering if you've come close to explaining how and why..
|
|
|
Post by freewilly on Oct 9, 2021 15:00:58 GMT
Like refusing to ever even attempt - in more than 55 years of lead guitar playing - a proper minor key solo! Francis Rossi - the Brit lead guitarist with the "happiest" solos of his generation. In his next life no doubt, he'll be reborn as a member of a Southern Rock band, they will let him do a few C&W songs as well. A Year is in A minor... As is Oh Baby, where he plays nothing but the minor pentatonic. Same as Railroad Softer Ride too Electric Arena is in Em and he plays the minor scale there. The solo for In The Army Now is minor Someone's Learning he uses the minor pentatonic, whilst mixing it with major scale like he does in MOTT. I'm not understanding where you're coming from mate. Can you please explain?
|
|
gav
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 2,161
Favourite Quo Album: On The Level
|
Post by gav on Oct 9, 2021 15:35:16 GMT
As for Dont think it matters, would be interesting to hear a tribute band keep the minor key for the solo so we can compare. Would you not have to completely re-write the solo for that?
|
|
|
Post by frozenhero on Oct 9, 2021 18:51:06 GMT
The variant I've read of Alan's quote is this (from quolive.webs.com ): "Rossi never learned his scales. He used to play from a minor to major without realising. And I think that gave the blues stuff a poppy feel... By accident, we commercialised the blues." I never paid much attention to it but it's mostly true - "Take Me Away" is in a minor key, but it's one of the exceptions, as is "Red Sky". He does tend to major scales. The other oddity of his playing is a tendency to not stay anchored to the tonic but to actually change the scales according to the chord changes, which makes things like the WYW solo quite difficult to figure out, actually.
|
|
gerh
Grizzled Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 2,983
Favourite Quo Album: 'Hello' [and 'Quo Live']
Favourite other bands.: Zappa, Kansas, Rush, Deep Purple, Yes, Richard Thompson, Horslips, Rory Gallagher, Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest etc etc. [ANYONE but Kiss!]
|
Post by gerh on Oct 9, 2021 19:25:50 GMT
mmm - I play guitar and love it as much as the next lad/lady - but isn't this all getting a little 'muso'? Don't take the spontaneous joy out of FR's work [same with EVH and countless 'unschooled' others] There's a saying in academia, "paralysis through analysis" [or vice versa] - how about we take the music we love for what it is and enjoy it? Jus' sayin'
|
|
|
Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Oct 9, 2021 20:20:12 GMT
Like refusing to ever even attempt - in more than 55 years of lead guitar playing - a proper minor key solo! Francis Rossi - the Brit lead guitarist with the "happiest" solos of his generation. In his next life no doubt, he'll be reborn as a member of a Southern Rock band, they will let him do a few C&W songs as well. A Year is in A minor... As is Oh Baby, where he plays nothing but the minor pentatonic. Same as Railroad Softer Ride too Electric Arena is in Em and he plays the minor scale there. The solo for In The Army Now is minor Someone's Learning he uses the minor pentatonic, whilst mixing it with major scale like he does in MOTT. I'm not understanding where you're coming from mate. Can you please explain? I'm glad you said that. I had to look up what key some of their best songs are in. To me, a lot more of them SOUND like they are minor, than actually are. Actually all the look ups on line seem to think they are all in major. This may be because they pick up the root chord from each song. But majors and minors are closely intertwined. To my ear, a lot of their songs which probably are major, and use mainly major chords, sound to me AS IF they are in a minor ...
So our band that plays happy music is really good at making it sound slightly sad :-D or at least deadly serious.
Major is happy, minor is sad, and everything else is jazz
|
|
|
Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Oct 9, 2021 20:22:11 GMT
The variant I've read of Alan's quote is this (from "Rossi never learned his scales. He used to play from a minor to major without realising. And I think that gave the blues stuff a poppy feel... By accident, we commercialised the blues." I never paid much attention to it but it's mostly true - "Take Me Away" is in a minor key, but it's one of the exceptions, as is "Red Sky". He does tend to major scales. The other oddity of his playing is a tendency to not stay anchored to the tonic but to actually change the scales according to the chord changes, which makes things like the WYW solo quite difficult to figure out, actually. I had a feeling he was doing something like that. He thought he was a rubbish guitarist, and in fact he wasn't. But he got bored, or just very insecure, with his own playing. :-( So sad.
|
|
|
Post by Mrs Flittersnoop on Oct 9, 2021 20:57:49 GMT
So I decided to read this yesterday... I'm not sure if the book is messy and contradictory or if the individual is messy and contradictory. Either way, fucking hell... Two things that kept jumping out at me (Probably because he constantly kept repeating them) 1. He denied it for years but, clearly the criticism of the band in the press did, does and will continue to sting him, a lot worse than I ever thought. Long before I was even a fan, hearing Francis on radio responding to John Peel saying he LIKED Paper Plane - he thought Peel was taking a dig, and responded like that. It was so clear that he couldn't accept a compliment from anyone in the musical establishment because he thought it was a backhander. (And this was Peel, who later mamanged to put it across that he was a fan.) Even as a teen it was kind of clear to me that this guy was very thin skinned about what people said, and it showed from time to time. He "didn't care" what people said about them, but he was always pushing this and alongside "explaining" why they were wrong. He cared very much indeed. It seems strange, but perhaps, to him, anything they did that wasn't just 3-verse pop, was pushing boundaries. Francis genuinely loves music, but he has no musical background at all, and he's insecure. This has to be why he's so passionate about practicing now, and keeps telling us this. He might have got technically better, but musically he hasn't got "better" because he never understood what he had. It's a case of ... "don't look down!" That thing about getting Pip Williams to do the guitar solos on whateever album it was. Probably didn't seem too odd to Pip, who was a session musician, that's what he did. But looking at it from the angle of the band's lead guitar, it's a very strange thing.
|
|
uwe
Rocker Rollin'
Other than Quo? Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Blue Öyster Cult, Wishbone Ash, Be-Bop Deluxe, Sparks ...
Posts: 100
|
Post by uwe on Oct 9, 2021 21:58:17 GMT
Couple of things:
- I really like Francis Rossi as a lead guitarist, he has a very individual style, I'm not putting him down at all. I even think that he is a better soloist today than he was in the early 70ies, his playing today, if you watch and hear closely, is really smart and has lots of humor. I remember being at a Quo/ZZ Top gig with a guitar playing buddy who is an arch-Billy Gibbons fan (aren't all guitarists?), who told me after seeing both bands: "I never realized up to now how darn good Rossi as a lead guitarist is."
- More than any other band I like, with Judas Priest (btw: a very minorish outfit!) being the possible exception, listening to Quo is a strictly primal experience to me. I'm a bassist and that makes you analyse and dissect music more, yes, but with Quo my feel-good hormones start a runnin'. Nevertheless, it is sometimes interesting to look at what makes Status Quo sound like Status Quo. The major key thing is a large part of it, Alan was right.
- Of course Francis can play a minor scale solo if his life depends on it. All fledling guitarists start out with the minorish blues pentatonic, some (not all!) of them eventually realize that moving that same scale down three frets suddenly has you improvising in the majorish blues pentatonic und that things begin to sound more Country/Southern Rock'ish. Young Francis must have learned the "move it three frets down and your lines will sound major!"-trick too, but then he somehow got stuck down there!!!
Francis is different to most (certainly British) rock guitarists because the major scale is his home base. I'm sure that if I played a "12-bar blues in A" on bass, leaving out any thirds that determine whether it's major or minor, and asked Francis to play a solo, he'd play a major and not a minor line over it. Yet nine out of ten guitarists would play a minor line (unless you are in Nashville!), because that is their default setting. His preference for major makes him stand out.
- What Quo "did" to The Doors' Roadhouse Blues is another example. It's originally a minorish blues scale song. Lots of people have covered it - Blue Öyster Cult and Deep Purple for instance - and they all stick to that minorish template of the original. Not Quo though. As they stretched the song out, Rossi would move from minor to major (all that Celtic jubilant melodies interplay ...). It is a refreshingly different approach though I'm not sure whether it was a conscious one. But in the end, I agree ... no, you don't think that matters at all ...
|
|