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Post by paradiseflats on Jan 12, 2021 19:01:21 GMT
Correct. The problem for many, if there is one, is that Alan's place in the band - and John's for that matter - was at a time when the music was perceived to be better than it is now or has been since 1986. Therefore it stands to reason that the 'replacements' would always be seen in a lesser light. Rocket science it ain't. That's just human nature. If the music is seen to be of a lesser quality - and that has been debated since Moses did the whole burning bush thing - then it is inevitable that the 'new guys' would take the flack. And even more so if one of them didn't wear studded jeans and a tight t-shirt. Because that's the uniform, right? Creatively, I personally do prefer the music they made in the 70's. It was more dynamic, more energetic and seemed to run parallel with my tastes at that time. But that's also a given. Everyone, generally speaking (that's my disclaimer ) is more creative in their 20's than they ever will be in their 40's onwards. So Rhino decides to sound off a bit nearly 35 years after the fact. Big deal. We've all been shouting about the same topic since the internet was born. Sometimes it gets tedious. But every so often someone comes up with something SO stupid and based on nothing but emotion, hearsay or ignorance that it livens things up a bit. Anyway, what's for tea? I fancy meatballs See, this is my issue here and it's more to do with people than the band. 1. It's unfair to compare Rhino to Alan, in terms of sound and playing. Rhino's style is completely different and he doesn't even play the same basslines as Alan in quite a lot of the songs. Visually, of course you could make that argument in the 80s but, not playing or soundwise. Very unfair. Alan had a hand in creating the songs that made Quo and that made us all fall in love with Quo. He was 1/4 of the sound that we all love. Doesn't matter who played bass after Alan, anyone comparing them to Alan, it's a misjudgment on their part 2. Now, this is my issue. Neither Rhino or Jeff or even Andy for that matter should be seen in a lesser light, for what it is perceived as weaker material, in anyone's eyes. Francis clearly states that in 1986, he said, members of the band are welcome to chip in with songs and ideas but, Rick and himself got final say and what ended up on the record. It's in every book they done, it's in the Rocker's Rollin boxset! So, if you want to point the finger of blame at someone... For the record, from what we know about Alan, there was no way he was going to accept anyone's help. He's clearly not in good health and he's telling us he's fine in interviews. He didn't want to be helped off stage after that gig in Germany. He's a very proud man and in his mind, he's trying to be an "honourable man" Misguided, misplaced, stupid, whatever you want to call it. Rhino shouldn't be insulting him over that. Still leaves me cold hearing only he went to the hospital with him and he was the only one in the room with him when he was getting treatment. I don't like that at all. It's another human being! He's your friend! No excuse for that. I nearly died one night a few years back. Lying on the pavement, blood pouring out of my head. Allegedly, a mate or two of mine stepped over my body and didn't bother stopping to help...Do you think that's acceptable behaviour? If not, than there's no excuse for people not being there for Rick If Edwards or any other band member writes and a song, it is perfectly legitimate to compare it to prior material from bands. It is what people have done since the dawn of the music industry. If you don't want it compared release it under a different name. When Blaze joined Maiden, people compared him to the previous singer. It may not be fair but comparing to previous line ups and eras of bands os what people do. All ways have. Rhino wants to sing in Status Quo, it is perfectly fair to compare him to other singers who were in the band whether that be Rick or Alan. Why is it not fair ? If Edwards style is diffent and he plays different lines is that not more reason to compare and contrast and say which people prefer. I never said to people when they have told me, the version with Rick singing Backwater, is better than the original live version. I never said, oh thats unfair on Alan , he sang in a different way to Rick. If its unfair to compare why has Edwards said on the record his version of Status Quo play some of the older material better. Is that by your argument not unfaier on John and Alan ? Of course with Status Quo, we all know where the buck stops and why they are what they are today. But if we follow the unfair rule, it would shut down debate as every time someone has a different opinion or preference, discussion will be shut down with the 'its unfair to compare' card.
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Post by freewilly on Jan 12, 2021 19:15:01 GMT
See, this is my issue here and it's more to do with people than the band. 1. It's unfair to compare Rhino to Alan, in terms of sound and playing. Rhino's style is completely different and he doesn't even play the same basslines as Alan in quite a lot of the songs. Visually, of course you could make that argument in the 80s but, not playing or soundwise. Very unfair. Alan had a hand in creating the songs that made Quo and that made us all fall in love with Quo. He was 1/4 of the sound that we all love. Doesn't matter who played bass after Alan, anyone comparing them to Alan, it's a misjudgment on their part 2. Now, this is my issue. Neither Rhino or Jeff or even Andy for that matter should be seen in a lesser light, for what it is perceived as weaker material, in anyone's eyes. Francis clearly states that in 1986, he said, members of the band are welcome to chip in with songs and ideas but, Rick and himself got final say and what ended up on the record. It's in every book they done, it's in the Rocker's Rollin boxset! So, if you want to point the finger of blame at someone... For the record, from what we know about Alan, there was no way he was going to accept anyone's help. He's clearly not in good health and he's telling us he's fine in interviews. He didn't want to be helped off stage after that gig in Germany. He's a very proud man and in his mind, he's trying to be an "honourable man" Misguided, misplaced, stupid, whatever you want to call it. Rhino shouldn't be insulting him over that. Still leaves me cold hearing only he went to the hospital with him and he was the only one in the room with him when he was getting treatment. I don't like that at all. It's another human being! He's your friend! No excuse for that. I nearly died one night a few years back. Lying on the pavement, blood pouring out of my head. Allegedly, a mate or two of mine stepped over my body and didn't bother stopping to help...Do you think that's acceptable behaviour? If not, than there's no excuse for people not being there for Rick If Edwards or any other band member writes and a song, it is perfectly legitimate to compare it to prior material from bands. It is what people have done since the dawn of the music industry. If you don't want it compared release it under a different name. When Blaze joined Maiden, people compared him to the previous singer. It may not be fair but comparing to previous line ups and eras of bands os what people do. All ways have. Rhino wants to sing in Status Quo, it is perfectly fair to compare him to other singers who were in the band whether that be Rick or Alan. Why is it not fair ? If Edwards style is diffent and he plays different lines is that not more reason to compare and contrast and say which people prefer. I never said to people when they have told me, the version with Rick singing Backwater, is better than the original live version. I never said, oh thats unfair on Alan , he sang in a different way to Rick. If its unfair to compare why has Edwards said on the record his version of Status Quo play some of the older material better. Is that by your argument not unfaier on John and Alan ? Of course with Status Quo, we all know where the buck stops and why they are what they are today. But if we follow the unfair rule, it would shut down debate as every time someone has a different opinion or preference, discussion will be shut down with the 'its unfair to compare' card. Well, you're after reading something that I never typed. I said his sound and style of play. Alan had a style and sound purely for Status Quo. He essentially made Status Quo with the other 3. Rhino was a session musician, whose style wasn't in the same category as Alan's. So yeah, it's very unfair to compare on that score. I also said it's unfair to blame weak material on himself or Jeff. As you say, we all know where the buck stops and he himself said he and Rick (now and again) chose what went on the records. Francis has said he tried to get Alan to play the bass to sound like The Eagles and Alan told him where to go. Rhino comes in and is told what to do and what to play on a song, hardly going to blame him for doing what his boss told him to do in fairness If he's singing Backwater, compare away. Same way Rick was compared If he writes a song, compare it to anyone. As you say, that's what people do in music. All I said was it's ridiculous to compare his style of playing and his sound to Alan and to blame him for some of the utter dross Francis has written, put on albums and the direction On another note, on another thread the other day, I did say that Rhino should sing songs he wrote, like Bad News, at gigs. He should be kept away from Rick and Alan's songs. Does him no favours
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Post by paradiseflats on Jan 12, 2021 19:32:06 GMT
If Edwards or any other band member writes and a song, it is perfectly legitimate to compare it to prior material from bands. It is what people have done since the dawn of the music industry. If you don't want it compared release it under a different name. When Blaze joined Maiden, people compared him to the previous singer. It may not be fair but comparing to previous line ups and eras of bands os what people do. All ways have. Rhino wants to sing in Status Quo, it is perfectly fair to compare him to other singers who were in the band whether that be Rick or Alan. Why is it not fair ? If Edwards style is diffent and he plays different lines is that not more reason to compare and contrast and say which people prefer. I never said to people when they have told me, the version with Rick singing Backwater, is better than the original live version. I never said, oh thats unfair on Alan , he sang in a different way to Rick. If its unfair to compare why has Edwards said on the record his version of Status Quo play some of the older material better. Is that by your argument not unfaier on John and Alan ? Of course with Status Quo, we all know where the buck stops and why they are what they are today. But if we follow the unfair rule, it would shut down debate as every time someone has a different opinion or preference, discussion will be shut down with the 'its unfair to compare' card. Well, you're after reading something that I never typed. I said his sound and style of play. Alan had a style and sound purely for Status Quo. He essentially made Status Quo with the other 3. Rhino was a session musician, whose style wasn't in the same category as Alan's. So yeah, it's very unfair to compare on that score. I also said it's unfair to blame weak material on himself or Jeff. As you say, we all know where the buck stops and he himself said he and Rick (now and again) chose what went on the records. Francis has said he tried to get Alan to play the bass to sound like The Eagles and Alan told him where to go. Rhino comes in and is told what to do and what to play on a song, hardly going to blame him for doing what his boss told him to do in fairness If he's singing Backwater, compare away. Same way Rick was compared If he writes a song, compare it to anyone. As you say, that's what people do in music. All I said was it's ridiculous to compare his style of playing and his sound to Alan and to blame him for some of the utter dross Francis has written, put on albums and the direction On another note, on another thread the other day, I did say that Rhino should sing songs he wrote, like Bad News, at gigs. He should be kept away from Rick and Alan's songs. Does him no favours We will just have to disagree which I think is fair.
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Post by freewilly on Jan 12, 2021 19:45:25 GMT
Well, you're after reading something that I never typed. I said his sound and style of play. Alan had a style and sound purely for Status Quo. He essentially made Status Quo with the other 3. Rhino was a session musician, whose style wasn't in the same category as Alan's. So yeah, it's very unfair to compare on that score. I also said it's unfair to blame weak material on himself or Jeff. As you say, we all know where the buck stops and he himself said he and Rick (now and again) chose what went on the records. Francis has said he tried to get Alan to play the bass to sound like The Eagles and Alan told him where to go. Rhino comes in and is told what to do and what to play on a song, hardly going to blame him for doing what his boss told him to do in fairness If he's singing Backwater, compare away. Same way Rick was compared If he writes a song, compare it to anyone. As you say, that's what people do in music. All I said was it's ridiculous to compare his style of playing and his sound to Alan and to blame him for some of the utter dross Francis has written, put on albums and the direction On another note, on another thread the other day, I did say that Rhino should sing songs he wrote, like Bad News, at gigs. He should be kept away from Rick and Alan's songs. Does him no favours We will just have to disagree which I think is fair. Fair enough. I just think it's harsh to blame him for the crap Francis wrote and the direction he went. That was sewn like before Rhino came along. Put it this way, if Rhino had said, "Nah, I don't think we should do that," back in the 80s, we'd be sat here talking about how Francis fell out with another bass player
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Post by paradiseflats on Jan 12, 2021 19:48:07 GMT
We will just have to disagree which I think is fair. Fair enough. I just think it's harsh to blame him for the crap Francis wrote and the direction he went. That was sewn like before Rhino came along. Put it this way, if Rhino had said, "Nah, I don't think we should do that," back in the 80s, we'd be sat here talking about how Francis fell out with another bass player I don’t blame him for the 80s albums. I do however blame and criticise for him the songs like Bad news. Yes he may not have the final say but it should never have got to the studio. Just like I praise him for Creeping.
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Post by freewilly on Jan 12, 2021 20:04:54 GMT
Fair enough. I just think it's harsh to blame him for the crap Francis wrote and the direction he went. That was sewn like before Rhino came along. Put it this way, if Rhino had said, "Nah, I don't think we should do that," back in the 80s, we'd be sat here talking about how Francis fell out with another bass player I don’t blame him for the 80s albums. I do however blame and criticise for him the songs like Bad news. Yes he may not have the final say but it should never have got to the studio. Just like I praise him for Creeping. I like Bad News. Although, some sections of the 2nd verse are a bit, "meh" But yeah, as I said, that's fair enough. I was referring to his playing style, sound and some of the material that Francis produced on various albums.
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Post by Gaz on Jan 12, 2021 21:09:03 GMT
Well, from what I saw, on myDVDs of the reunions, Alan may have not been up to scratch with the bass but he certainly made up for it with his voice and especially the delivery of his songs which is way and beyond what Rhino offers imo.👍 Remember a couple of old members called Teleboogie and Fisherman? They piled in with the conspiracy theory that Rhino was playing bass behind the stage.... Im sure townsvillequo would’ve sorted that out for them. Their feuds on the old board were very entertaining.
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Post by 4th Chord on Jan 12, 2021 23:37:35 GMT
Remember a couple of old members called Teleboogie and Fisherman? They piled in with the conspiracy theory that Rhino was playing bass behind the stage.... Im sure townsvillequo would’ve sorted that out for them. Their feuds on the old board were very entertaining. TB absolutely had a melt down over me. Fisherman was just..........odd.
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Post by freewilly on Jan 13, 2021 0:04:11 GMT
Im sure townsvillequo would’ve sorted that out for them. Their feuds on the old board were very entertaining. TB absolutely had a melt down over me. Fisherman was just..........odd. Said it at the time, he was definitely one of the security guards that Alan smacked in Vienna
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Post by Quoincidence on Jan 13, 2021 18:37:47 GMT
I remember a thread at the time (started by whoever) saying that Rick, Francis, Alan and John had all been getting wigs fitted for the reunion tour
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Post by freewilly on Jan 13, 2021 18:47:32 GMT
I remember a thread at the time (started by whoever) saying that Rick, Francis, Alan and John had all been getting wigs fitted for the reunion tour I remember that Also remember the night of the first gig, someone posted a 30 second clip of the crescendo at the end of BBJ. Fisherman and a few went in hard... "See, we told you it would be shit!" Good times...Until the BQ release. The one time everyone on the forum was in agreement and it gets shut down
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Post by dennis on Jan 13, 2021 21:49:57 GMT
I remember a thread at the time (started by whoever) saying that Rick, Francis, Alan and John had all been getting wigs fitted for the reunion tour John's was shite!
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Post by Quoincidence on Jan 13, 2021 21:58:23 GMT
I remember a thread at the time (started by whoever) saying that Rick, Francis, Alan and John had all been getting wigs fitted for the reunion tour John's was shite! There must have been a mix up with the barnets. Just looking through my folders and I've got some great pictures from that first tour. Not sure who took this and what show it's from.
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Post by dennis on Jan 13, 2021 22:14:54 GMT
There must have been a mix up with the barnets. Just looking through my folders and I've got some great pictures from that first tour. Not sure who took this and what show it's from. Aye, only Rick could possibly have been happy with the results - I trust the other three refused to pay!
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Post by wolfman on Jan 15, 2021 9:16:59 GMT
Im sure townsvillequo would’ve sorted that out for them. Their feuds on the old board were very entertaining. TB absolutely had a melt down over me. Fisherman was just..........odd. Fisherman and ivy parfitt was odd..on the old board me n ivy toryboy often clashed
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