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Post by MrWaistcoat on Nov 18, 2020 18:49:19 GMT
Quo books refer to "musical snobbery",and nobody here will defend journalists who review music they haven't even listened to.
But it wasnt just DJ's and journos that dissed Quo,was it ?
It's never really made much sense to me.
I started learning guitar during lockdown and perhaps now have a fresh insight / theory about the hostility. It's only now I'm understanding just how simple Francis early lead work is. When Francis says 50% of old Quo is crap...perhaps he hates listening to stuff like daughter because his guitar bits are so simple ?
Anyway ,I think the simplicity thing may be a factor in the hostility. Can imagine a rock fan trying to figure out some Ritchie Blackmore ,perhaps hears a snippet of Quo and thinks "oh f off,even I could play that "
Anyone's insights / ideas around the hostility to old Quo would be great 👍
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Post by freewilly on Nov 18, 2020 20:32:34 GMT
Rick rightly gets the praise he deserves these days. Check out any guitar page on FB and so many posts from guitarists are them saying how shocked they were at the level of Rick's playing and what not. Hold You Back, Mystery Song, WYW and Dirty Water are all mentioned. With Francis, there's nothing simple about creating solos like Lonely Man, Dirty Water, Slow Train, Someone's Learning, Backwater, Unspoken Words, Rock n Roll, Little Lady, Most of The Time etc or create riffs like BEL, BFM, 4500 Times, Down Down, Caroline. To create a solo that vibes and connects with you and the song on an emotive level, a solo that tells a story, that's very difficult to do. Francis done it many times. Crazy by Aerosmith is a "simple solo" but, my God is it amazing!! Same with Comfortably Numb and Stairway. Although, Eddie Van Halen made it look and sound very easy on Beat It (and everything else the magnificent man played on ) ...Then again, himself and the man who wrote Beat It were just on another planet kind of good so they don't count! I can't give any insights only that, as a guitarist, I really have zero clue where the hostility came from, except maybe the singles? PP, Caroline, BTR and even Down Down all sound "simple" to the ear. ROLD live was probably the first time the general public hear Francis let rip, outside of the fanbase.
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Post by twentytwenty on Nov 18, 2020 20:32:50 GMT
I don't know. Less is more is often the best recipe when it comes to lead guitar imo. That's why I always loved Francis way of playing lead. And I don't really think that his style has changed that much during the years. Talking about studio work now ofc And I agree with every word freewilly said too
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Post by MrWaistcoat on Nov 18, 2020 21:04:19 GMT
Good points. And by the time role over live came out ,the band's image was already set
I do think Francis changed his style
Listen to spinning wheel blues. Great, inventive playing. Done in a very basic way. If Francis wrote and recorded it now there would be subtle bends to every note. I think he'd be embarrassed to record something in such a basic way. I also think a lot of it is that he simply became a technically better player. I think some of the "lamebrain" stuff effected him
Whether any of this is any explanation for the over the top derision they had thrown at them I don't know
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Post by freewilly on Nov 18, 2020 21:12:48 GMT
Good points. And by the time role over live came out ,the band's image was already set I do think Francis changed his style Listen to spinning wheel blues. Great, inventive playing. Done in a very basic way. If Francis wrote and recorded it now there would be subtle bends to every note. I think he'd be embarrassed to record something in such a basic way. I also think a lot of it is that he simply became a technically better player. I think some of the "lamebrain" stuff effected him Whether any of this is any explanation for the over the top derision they had thrown at them I don't know It's irritating as fuck but, he basically has a giant neon sign he carries above his head, that says, "INSECURE" Have a read of Xs All Areas or even his latest book. It reads like Alan Partridge. "I was proved right" "Alan admitted to me I was the main man" He started losing his hair in 1972...He basically only accepted it in 2009 The guy is very insecure. It's clear as day the "3 chord" thing affected him. He shouldn't have listened to those idiots though...The same critics who ignore the likes of Rory Gallagher, Tommy Emmanuel and Lindsey Buckingham yet, have one of the sloppiest live guitar players of all time as the number 1 best guitarist of all time.
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Post by twentytwenty on Nov 18, 2020 21:26:02 GMT
Good points. And by the time role over live came out ,the band's image was already set I do think Francis changed his style Listen to spinning wheel blues. Great, inventive playing. Done in a very basic way. If Francis wrote and recorded it now there would be subtle bends to every note. I think he'd be embarrassed to record something in such a basic way. I also think a lot of it is that he simply became a technically better player. I think some of the "lamebrain" stuff effected him Whether any of this is any explanation for the over the top derision they had thrown at them I don't know It's irritating as fuck but, he basically has a giant neon sign he carries above his head, that says, "INSECURE" Have a read of Xs All Areas or even his latest book. It reads like Alan Partridge. "I was proved right" "Alan admitted to me I was the main man" He started losing his hair in 1972...He basically only accepted it in 2009 The guy is very insecure. It's clear as day the "3 chord" thing affected him. He shouldn't have listened to those idiots though...The same critics who ignore the likes of Rory Gallagher, Tommy Emmanuel and Lindsey Buckingham yet, have one of the sloppiest live guitar players of all time as the number 1 best guitarist of all time. one of the sloppiest live guitar players of all time as the number 1 best guitarist of all time. Who do you mean there? He started losing his hair in 1972...He basically only accepted it in 2009 I laughed way more than I should have done to this he basically has a giant neon sign he carries above his head, that says, "INSECURE"Well, he basically says so in every god damn interview he does too lmao
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Post by freewilly on Nov 18, 2020 21:36:22 GMT
It's irritating as fuck but, he basically has a giant neon sign he carries above his head, that says, "INSECURE" Have a read of Xs All Areas or even his latest book. It reads like Alan Partridge. "I was proved right" "Alan admitted to me I was the main man" He started losing his hair in 1972...He basically only accepted it in 2009 The guy is very insecure. It's clear as day the "3 chord" thing affected him. He shouldn't have listened to those idiots though...The same critics who ignore the likes of Rory Gallagher, Tommy Emmanuel and Lindsey Buckingham yet, have one of the sloppiest live guitar players of all time as the number 1 best guitarist of all time. one of the sloppiest live guitar players of all time as the number 1 best guitarist of all time. Who do you mean there? He started losing his hair in 1972...He basically only accepted it in 2009 I laughed way more than I should have done to this he basically has a giant neon sign he carries above his head, that says, "INSECURE"Well, he basically says so in every god damn interview he does too lmao He did start losing it in 1972 though. You can see it in the Paper Plane video and pictures from the Reading Festival. I know how he feels Ah everyone will know who I mean. I'm not going down the route of naming names. But, it's quite obvious
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Post by twentytwenty on Nov 18, 2020 21:41:17 GMT
one of the sloppiest live guitar players of all time as the number 1 best guitarist of all time. Who do you mean there? He started losing his hair in 1972...He basically only accepted it in 2009 I laughed way more than I should have done to this he basically has a giant neon sign he carries above his head, that says, "INSECURE"Well, he basically says so in every god damn interview he does too lmao He did start losing it in 1972 though. You can see it in the Paper Plane video and pictures from the Reading Festival. I know how he feels Ah everyone will know who I mean. I'm not going down the route of naming names. But, it's quite obvious Well fuck, I don't know who you're talking about. It surely can't be Yngwie. Blackmore?, no, can't be him either. The lead guitarist in Moving To Ashbury?, no, can't be him either, but a damn good locking fella though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 22:13:26 GMT
freewilly Do you mean Brian? I saw yet another poll where he'd come top recently, I also saw another one who said it was Jimi Hendrix. On the hair front you could always do a Francis and go for the ponytail and ribbon bow, or A Ritchie and get some "assistance"
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Post by freewilly on Nov 18, 2020 22:18:27 GMT
freewilly Do you mean Brian? I saw yet another poll where he'd come top recently, I also saw another one who said it was Jimi Hendrix. On the hair front you could always do a Francis and go for the ponytail and ribbon bow, or A Ritchie and get some "assistance" Oh no, not Brian! I was referring to Page. My Fedora will cover it up for now
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gav
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 2,150
Favourite Quo Album: On The Level
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Post by gav on Nov 18, 2020 22:19:06 GMT
JP?
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Post by twentytwenty on Nov 18, 2020 23:04:15 GMT
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matt
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 1,007
Member is Online
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Post by matt on Nov 19, 2020 0:35:28 GMT
Guitarist of 30 years here....
Francis I think is a good guitarist with a good ear for crafting melodic if technically relatively simple solos, primarily bluesy in the early 70s
You can hear he was cutting his teeth on Ma Kelly and Dog. Some of the solo work on things like Umleitung veers from inspired to rather lame. But at his best in the 70s he was great. Just take me / Most of Time / roll over has always been my faves
One thing I don’t understand is if he practices every day why we don’t hear it on record. No long breaks anymore.... a shame.
Rick on the other hand I actually think was pretty limited. And very lazy. He was brilliant at the 12 bar metronomic rhythm, but All his best guitar work was definitely between 70 and 77. I don’t think he progressed much after that.
There’s a good clip of Rick and Brian May in youtube in German TV. Now I know Brian is one of the all time greats, but it really highlights the gulf in class between a solid player and a great one.
But I think that’s Quo in a nutshell. No real virtuosos in any capacity but far better than the sun of their parts.
If anything John Coghlan back in the day was perhaps the ‘best’ at what he did
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Post by greenguitar on Nov 19, 2020 2:56:02 GMT
To the critic, Quo’s 70s music was derivative of 1950s rock n’roll, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, just more electrified. POMM on the other hand had a cool factor, still has actually. Quo 70s onwards lyrics were not considered too deep, and that was amplified when other bands started to write more socially conscious lyrics, whether that was punk or new wave artists like Costello dealing with evil government regimes, or the shoe-gazing miserabalists capturing depression and existential angst. Quo’s 70s music would be like a band in the 2000s trying to make it big with Bee Gees style 70s disco. In other words it was considered old fashioned and unhip, without any deep meaning to the lyrics. I’m not saying this is case - beneath it all there were songs on Troubles in Northern Ireland, depression, loneliness to statement songs like Never Too Late. Their music was more complex than ever given credit for.
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mortified
4500 Timer
Posts: 5,853
Favourite Quo Album: Hello!
Favourite other bands.: Talking Heads, Rolling Stones, Sheryl Crow, Gary Numan, Alabama 3, ZZ Top, Paul van Dyk, Jeff Beck, Bowie, Gerry Rafferty, Band of Skulls, UFO, S.A.H.B
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Post by mortified on Nov 19, 2020 7:07:53 GMT
It was, pure and simple, musical snobbery. Pretentiousness all round, encouraged and fed by a music media, which people read in their hundreds of thousands back then. Bands like Yes, Genesis, ELP and Gentle Giant through to Zeppelin via acts such as Paul Simon and James Taylor were praised to the hilt. Quo were seen as the antithesis of musical 'intelligence' and therefore treated like poor relations. This fed down to those who didn't want to be seen as appearing just a bit simple. The exceptions were John Peel and John Shearlaw who wrote for "Sounds" and "Record Mirror" respectively. They flew a lone flag for a while and Mr Peel having a radio prog helped. Of course, this all changed when punk and new wave hit but it was beginning to shift just before that. Suddenly, Quo were having the single of the week in rags that wouldn't touch them before; the NME and Melody Maker particularly. Mystery Song and Again And Again were both given that 'accolade'. And Quo Live! was suddenly a 5* review all round. People were/are influenced by what they read. Peer pressure comes into play. But the bottom line is - and this no doubt rankled - the media had no influence whatsoever on the increasing popularity of the band. That only made things worse for a while; '72 to about '74 were pretty awful. Some of the comments were truly insulting. Musical ability was a perceived factor; no question about that. But even back then I never saw guitarists like Steve Howe or Jimmy Page as sounding particularly great. But I was no musician, so I took the media at it's word. Both are probably very good but neither are especially good soloists in my view. Certainly no better than Francis. The criticism, of course, never went away but, as time went on, for every half dozen bad reviews there was at least one giving some credit. But the public stigma remains. Only these days, it's all largely irrelevant as music plays a smaller and smaller part in people's lives. Here endeth the lesson according to a 70's teenager with a bad memory
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