Triggsy
Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 229
Favourite Quo Album: On The Level
Favourite other bands.: AC/DC Greenday Airbourne
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Post by Triggsy on Oct 17, 2020 16:50:49 GMT
We had 'Rollin' Home' and 'Red Sky' produced by Dave Edmunds...superb, guitar based Quo sound, I remember thinking 'Quo REALLY are Back'...but then Pip Williams produced the rest of 'ITAN' (and 'AC' with 'PR'), it rapidly went downhill (chart wise, although looking back, times were changing) was it Pips' production or Rossi/Frost 'taking over and saturating' Quo offerings with their solo orientated song writing? Did Alan have a valid point of Francis (and to a lesser extent Rick) using the Quo name to release solo tracks, to cover for non successful solo careers? I'd say, changing times or no, especially with Francis, the answer was yes...Rick seemed happy to go along with the 'Status Quo' (pun intended)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 19:16:24 GMT
I suppose Pip was looked on as a safe pair of hands to try and make something out of the trainwreck that was Quo then, lawsuits, alcohol, coke, poor writing, Francis seeing the future in a radically different light now he wasn't fettered by Alan. An album completely produced by Dave Edmunds would have been a very different beast, he may have been able to make something of even the popiest numbers on ITAN.
This thread really ties in with the previous one on production styles, the clash between Pip, Paxman and Rossi and their varied results. As people said the essential thing for any producer is to get the "vibe" of who they're producing. Dave Edmunds I think did this really well. Francis seemed to seesaw between what he wanted Quo to sound like "Thirsty Work" and what he thought the fans wanted Quo to sound like "RTYD", an album I thought he did a sterling job with, his best production till "Backbone".
Paxman has singularly failed to understand Quo's sound and fanbase. The work he did with Judie Tzuke I think is really good, some great albums but he just doesn't seem to be able transition to a heavier rock sound. For me the work he did with Uriah Heep and Asia was utterly dismal too and in no way fitted the legacy of either band. The albums he's produced for Quo for me are all their weakest output.
Pip Williams is a really talented guy but he's also an inveterate meddler. He has to impose "his sound" on any project he's involved with. I remember playing keyboards on a friend's album back in 86 with Pip producing. It was crystal clear, fantastic quality work but listening to the final mix there was also a certain sterility, a lack of individuality and of course the ever present Pip guitar sound and his own twiddly little solos that make his production style so instantly recognizable.
But as for Quo's 86 comeback it could have been such a different story. Dave Edmunds producing the whole album, instead of going with Rhino and Jeff Rich, sticking with Pete Kircher and persuading first choice of replacement bass player Jim Lea of Slade to take the job. We could really have had a rock force to be reckoned with, especially with Jim's superlative writing and producing skills. Instead of which we got Pip's syrupy pop and Bernie Frost's squeaking.
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jcb
Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 77
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Post by jcb on Oct 17, 2020 20:46:32 GMT
I thought there had been a bit of a falling out between FR and Dave Edmunds and that’s why the rest of the album went to Pip. But that was from an article from many years ago, or perhaps I dreamt it.
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jcb
Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 77
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Post by jcb on Oct 17, 2020 20:50:47 GMT
Oh and the Jim Lea thing, really? I doubt it. Look how many hits he wrote, would he settle for just spanking the plank?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 21:09:26 GMT
Oh and the Jim Lea thing, really? I doubt it. Look how many hits he wrote, would he settle for just spanking the plank? As it was his loyalty to Slade won out but had he agreed to join why would he have stopped writing? Jim has always been way more than a bassist, as you say consumate hot rock song writer, fantastic producer and a good singer too.
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Post by twentytwenty on Oct 17, 2020 21:46:19 GMT
I suppose Pip was looked on as a safe pair of hands to try and make something out of the trainwreck that was Quo then, lawsuits, alcohol, coke, poor writing, Francis seeing the future in a radically different light now he wasn't fettered by Alan. An album completely produced by Dave Edmunds would have been a very different beast, he may have been able to make something of even the popiest numbers on ITAN. This thread really ties in with the previous one on production styles, the clash between Pip, Paxman and Rossi and their varied results. As people said the essential thing for any producer is to get the "vibe" of who they're producing. Dave Edmunds I think did this really well. Francis seemed to seesaw between what he wanted Quo to sound like "Thirsty Work" and what he thought the fans wanted Quo to sound like "RTYD", an album I thought he did a sterling job with, his best production till "Backbone". Paxman has singularly failed to understand Quo's sound and fanbase. The work he did with Judie Tzuke I think is really good, some great albums but he just doesn't seem to be able transition to a heavier rock sound. For me the work he did with Uriah Heep and Asia was utterly dismal too and in no way fitted the legacy of either band. The albums he's produced for Quo for me are all their weakest output. Pip Williams is a really talented guy but he's also an inveterate meddler. He has to impose "his sound" on any project he's involved with. I remember playing keyboards on a friend's album back in 86 with Pip producing. It was crystal clear, fantastic quality work but listening to the final mix there was also a certain sterility, a lack of individuality and of course the ever present Pip guitar sound and his own twiddly little solos that make his production style so instantly recognizable. But as for Quo's 86 comeback it could have been such a different story. Dave Edmunds producing the whole album, instead of going with Rhino and Jeff Rich, sticking with Pete Kircher and persuading first choice of replacement bass player Jim Lea of Slade to take the job. We could really have had a rock force to be reckoned with, especially with Jim's superlative writing and producing skills. Instead of which we got Pip's syrupy pop and Bernie Frost's squeaking. Rhino is a fantastic songwriter as well and has penned and co-wrote many really good quo songs over the years. jeff was a great drummer, it’s not his fault the band was coked up during most of his time in the band and Rick wanting to battle the Ramones on who could play the fastest (yes, I’m thinking of Caroline) lmao. To me Red Sky and Rolling Home sound just as bad as the rest of the album. They even managed to make the great Invatation lifeless, just listen to that old demo on one of the deluxes, just as simple, but much more lively
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Post by sqcollector on Oct 17, 2020 21:48:58 GMT
Francis seemed to seesaw between what he wanted Quo to sound like "Thirsty Work" and what he thought the fans wanted Quo to sound like "RTYD" What makes you say this? What I know if that Francis made Thirsty Work that way because he thought that's what the fans wanted. Not what he wanted.
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Post by sqcollector on Oct 17, 2020 21:50:50 GMT
Jim has always been way more than a bassist So has Rhino... He writes cracking rocking songs... Rhino just doesn't sing very well. But he is a great musician; not just a bassist.
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Post by sqcollector on Oct 17, 2020 21:56:27 GMT
By the way, the kind of speech on this thread seems very based on "if .. would've been better"... Rollin' Home (a song that I really enjoy) doesn't really have more guitar than, say, Dreamin'. It sure doesn't have more guitar and it's not as rockier as End Of The Line or Overdose. There's nothing in Rollin' Home and Red Sky that can make me say with any level of confidence that Dave Edmunds would have produced a rockier or "better" or more Quo-sounding album than the ones we had with Pip.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 22:55:24 GMT
Francis seemed to seesaw between what he wanted Quo to sound like "Thirsty Work" and what he thought the fans wanted Quo to sound like "RTYD" What makes you say this? What I know if that Francis made Thirsty Work that way because he thought that's what the fans wanted. Not what he wanted. What Francis says in public should always be taken with a pinch of salt. He knows exactly what sound the old fans like and he pretty much gave them that on RTYD. He would be under no illusions, no matter what he said, that "Thirsty Work" would be complete anathema to most hardcore fans. Feigning surprise when it didn't do well is Francis all over. As for Rhino, yes he's a competent bassist and a decent songwriter. Is he in the same ballpark in terms of all round ability and skill as Jim Lea? Most definitely not. The question of whether Dave Edmunds would have produced a rockier album than Pip could be argued ad nauseam. He would certainly have produced a more organic, less sterile album.
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Post by twentytwenty on Oct 18, 2020 0:31:07 GMT
What makes you say this? What I know if that Francis made Thirsty Work that way because he thought that's what the fans wanted. Not what he wanted. What Francis says in public should always be taken with a pinch of salt. He knows exactly what sound the old fans like and he pretty much gave them that on RTYD. He would be under no illusions, no matter what he said, that "Thirsty Work" would be complete anathema to most hardcore fans. Feigning surprise when it didn't do well is Francis all over. As for Rhino, yes he's a competent bassist and a decent songwriter. Is he in the same ballpark in terms of all round ability and skill as Jim Lea? Most definitely not. The question of whether Dave Edmunds would have produced a rockier album than Pip could be argued ad nauseam. He would certainly have produced a more organic, less sterile album. But that's just the problem. Rollin' Home and Red Sky is just as sterile as the rest of the album. There is definitely no signs that there even was a second producer on those tracks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 6:55:33 GMT
What Francis says in public should always be taken with a pinch of salt. He knows exactly what sound the old fans like and he pretty much gave them that on RTYD. He would be under no illusions, no matter what he said, that "Thirsty Work" would be complete anathema to most hardcore fans. Feigning surprise when it didn't do well is Francis all over. As for Rhino, yes he's a competent bassist and a decent songwriter. Is he in the same ballpark in terms of all round ability and skill as Jim Lea? Most definitely not. The question of whether Dave Edmunds would have produced a rockier album than Pip could be argued ad nauseam. He would certainly have produced a more organic, less sterile album. But that's just the problem. Rollin' Home and Red Sky is just as sterile as the rest of the album. There is definitely no signs that there even was a second producer on those tracks. Music is entirely personal, two people will hear the same song and have entirely different opinions on its melodic and lyrical value, on the style of production, literally every aspect. We obviously differ on how we view Dave Edmunds' work, it doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong.
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Post by blagult on Oct 18, 2020 9:44:24 GMT
I actually think Rollin Home is a great track. I love the Guitar sound on it. You can tell DE has influenced that sound as producer. I don’t understand why they didn’t give the whole album over to him. Saying that, the track ITAN has great production on it for my ears. They’ve had history with this though. WSOL with Roger Glover who disappeared and wasn’t given the Rockin Album.
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Post by musiktruhe on Oct 18, 2020 10:53:32 GMT
Rollin Home and Red Sky are for me for sure no real quo classics, but the best songs on the Army Album with the better production.
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mortified
4500 Timer
Posts: 5,861
Favourite Quo Album: Hello!
Favourite other bands.: Talking Heads, Rolling Stones, Sheryl Crow, Gary Numan, Alabama 3, ZZ Top, Paul van Dyk, Jeff Beck, Bowie, Gerry Rafferty, Band of Skulls, UFO, S.A.H.B
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Post by mortified on Oct 18, 2020 11:26:20 GMT
I thought there had been a bit of a falling out between FR and Dave Edmunds and that’s why the rest of the album went to Pip. But that was from an article from many years ago, or perhaps I dreamt it. There was something at the time. I remember Francis saying in an interview that he'd lost respect for Dave Edmunds after he'd produced Rollin' Home and Red Sky. Not sure if they fell out or just that the decision was taken not to use him for the album. Almost like these two tracks were a dummy run and it wasn't the sound they (or Francis) wanted or hoped for. But Quo were all over the place at the time. Some of the decisions seemed incomprehensible, not least of which was the decision to play Sun City in South Africa. That bordered on the suicidal career wise. They're very lucky they got away with that one. I know I was very unhappy and just a little embarrassed about it at the time.
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