matt
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 1,003
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Post by matt on Oct 16, 2020 21:21:22 GMT
For me a lot of the latter day stuff sounds like it’s recorded in a room covered in blankets. The high frequencies and crispness isn’t there. The drum sound going back to Just Supposin is way better
I thought the brightness and tonal sound of ISOTFC was very good. Personally if they took the voices down to backbone levels I would think that would be great. But even so it’s good.
I ran “cut me some slac”k through GarageBand and tweaked the levels an also added a triggered second snare over Leon’s performance. It’s sounds way better and that was 10 minutes work.
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Post by twentytwenty on Oct 16, 2020 22:39:00 GMT
For me a lot of the latter day stuff sounds like it’s recorded in a room covered in blankets. The high frequencies and crispness isn’t there. The drum sound going back to Just Supposin is way better I thought the brightness and tonal sound of ISOTFC was very good. Personally if they took the voices down to backbone levels I would think that would be great. But even so it’s good. I ran “cut me some slac”k through GarageBand and tweaked the levels an also added a triggered second snare over Leon’s performance. It’s sounds way better and that was 10 minutes work. Hahaha, and here I was thinking the vocals was too damn low on the backbone album
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Post by frozenhero on Oct 16, 2020 22:57:08 GMT
In all honesty - I would say Rock till you Drop. Or even Anniversary Waltz. For me producer isnt just capturing 5 performances, its about the vibe of the band. That to me feels like a band album, and all the instruments are dynamically present Although I think you could really tell In Search of the Fourth chord had a decent producer. As I say I don't automatically really equate Heavy with Good. I personally dont like the Quo album sound. I know that won't go down very well.... - Thirsty work is at least bright but doesnt sound like the band - Dont stop is just awful - Riffs, Heavy Traffic and TPAOY all suffer from Paxman-itis. They even re mixed All that counts is love for the single. And a good/bad example of what I mean is on Gotta Get up and Go, where the band come in after intial intro - it goes nowhere. - UTI - I haven't heard for a while, but was impressed at the time - Quid Pro quo is better than some as I remember I seemed to spend a lot of time messing with my Graphic Equaliser listening to these albums. A quick run of an mp3 through gragaeband and playing with the dynamic frequencies can yield far better results. Maybe its the mixing. Or Mastering I dont know. But things seldom come out of ARSIS studios sounding very good IMO Cheers for your reply matt. Funny you should mention Graphic equalisers as took me back to a time in the late 70s and early 80s of the trend of putting graphic EQ gadgets in our cars linked up to the cassette player. I can't deny that it made a difference! Saxon's 'Denim and Leather' went to another level in a mate's EQ' d up Capri Ghia! That's the curious thing with production... Rock ti You Drop had been recorded 'live' at Bray studios and also at Rossi's Arsis studios. Pip did a good job generally with 'ISOTFC' but some say it was 'too loud' as per the trend of those times but mastering will also come into play on that front. Pip is quite proud of 'Don't Stop'. In the main, the band set up as a band all together for 'Don't Stop' (as opposed to in the 'all together' with Aquostic!) in Arsis studios and the results were a fairly live recording, as such. Most albums have overdubs etc. Didn't John Eden say Francis was shocked about the amount of compression that ended up on ISOTFC? Took a while to draw the right conclusions... Don't Stop may be "live" but the way it's mixed, it sounds very sterile, and there is also the choice of keyboard sounds, which is more production than mixing/mastering territory.
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Post by MrWaistcoat on Oct 16, 2020 23:38:31 GMT
Think I agree with everything Matt says about the production / sound. Good thread
This was recorded on a shoestring budget
This how I'd like Quo to have sounded this last 35 years or so
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Post by dennis on Oct 16, 2020 23:59:22 GMT
They were never the same without Damon Lyon-Shaw
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Post by freewilly on Oct 17, 2020 1:23:16 GMT
Great thread.
One thing that caught my eye and I agree on 100%...The producer has to capture the vibe! Doesn't matter about mistakes, these days anyways. Once the feel and vibe is there, you're onto a winner.
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Post by twentytwenty on Oct 17, 2020 1:33:01 GMT
Personally, I think the fourth chord production is the best they’ve had since Thirsty work. I also like the production on One step at a time.
Quid Pro Quo starts a bit weird with two way traffic and it’s hideous hihat. But if you only focus on the songs solely produced by Francis it is a little better, but only a little. They can obviously never get to the level of someone like Pip Williams on their own.
I hope they revisit these albums and give them a proper remix sometime in the future
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Post by frozenhero on Oct 17, 2020 8:20:28 GMT
Quid Pro Quo starts a bit weird with two way traffic and it’s hideous hihat. But if you only focus on the songs solely produced by Francis it is a little better, but only a little. They can obviously never get to the level of someone like Pip Williams on their own. I hope they revisit these albums and give them a proper remix sometime in the future The problem with that album, and a few other things, is that Mike was also involved in the mastering. So if you've got the Paxman and the Rossi productions on one disc, the mastering is there to make it more uniform. I'm not sure why Bula Quo! wasn't mentioned yet - I think that was pretty good sound-wise, and with less compression it could be even better. On the other hand, Paxman ruined the live songs from Montreux on the bonus disc - the CD from the CD/DVD package sounds much better.
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mortified
4500 Timer
Posts: 5,841
Favourite Quo Album: Hello!
Favourite other bands.: Talking Heads, Rolling Stones, Sheryl Crow, Gary Numan, Alabama 3, ZZ Top, Paul van Dyk, Jeff Beck, Bowie, Gerry Rafferty, Band of Skulls, UFO, S.A.H.B
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Post by mortified on Oct 17, 2020 9:20:36 GMT
I don't know the first thing about production, mastering, mixing, compression or any other piece of jargon you throw into the mix (see what I did there? ) And I couldn't tell a hi-hat from a Panama. All I know is I stick an album on and I listen to it and I either like it or I don't. Sometimes the overall sound is a bit flat - something I feel blights both Heavy Traffic and Rock 'til You Drop - but only to a VERY small degree. I have enough difficulty analysing the quality of the material without delving into which PART OF AN instrument sounds further away than another. Almost all of the albums mentioned in this thread are good. End of. For me that is
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matt
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 1,003
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Post by matt on Oct 17, 2020 10:19:25 GMT
I think it’s a little dependent on the genre of music you listen to as well
A classical recording of John Barry, who I also love, I don’t want to sound loud and compressed. It wants to sound lush and rich and clear.
But Definitely Maybe by Oasis is perfectly produced. It’s like an audio “F*ck you”. It grabs you from the first bar of Rock n roll star....
Now I’m not saying that’s right for Quo, but for a band whose reputation and legacy has been largely built on live performance, with 5 guys playing, for me it would make sense to capture that essence. That doesn’t mean you can’t add bells and whistles in the studio, but the core Quo vibe is quite simple music played loud and raw.
Rock n roll or whatever you want to call it as a genre is about excitement and atmosphere, not clinical perfection. It’s up to a producer to tell the band that.
Leon - who I think is a great drummer and has really nailed it live - said on Instagram he recorded all his parts for Backbone in 2 days, without the band I think. So that’s what, 7 tracks a day playing in isolation. That doesn’t sound like a recipe for a fantastic performance across an album.
All this aside I really like Backbone. Just so we all know! And I think it’s actually a better producer album that a lot of their post 99 stuff. I just find it a little frustrating that the band seem to find it so difficult to capture a decent sound that doesn’t sound like it was recorded on the cheap.
And I haven’t mentioned Bula Quo because I don’t even class the whole project as worthy of a listen.
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Post by twentytwenty on Oct 17, 2020 10:19:47 GMT
Quid Pro Quo starts a bit weird with two way traffic and it’s hideous hihat. But if you only focus on the songs solely produced by Francis it is a little better, but only a little. They can obviously never get to the level of someone like Pip Williams on their own. I hope they revisit these albums and give them a proper remix sometime in the future The problem with that album, and a few other things, is that Mike was also involved in the mastering. So if you've got the Paxman and the Rossi productions on one disc, the mastering is there to make it more uniform. I'm not sure why Bula Quo! wasn't mentioned yet - I think that was pretty good sound-wise, and with less compression it could be even better. On the other hand, Paxman ruined the live songs from Montreux on the bonus disc - the CD from the CD/DVD package sounds much better. Haha damn I didn't know that he was involved in the mastering as well. I still feel that the Francis-produced songs on QPQ is better. Compression isn't an enemy if you use it right. An example of when it's not used right is on the snare on Cut Me Some Slack - great album that though
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matt
Veteran Rocker Rollin'
Posts: 1,003
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Post by matt on Oct 17, 2020 10:23:35 GMT
The problem with that album, and a few other things, is that Mike was also involved in the mastering. So if you've got the Paxman and the Rossi productions on one disc, the mastering is there to make it more uniform. I'm not sure why Bula Quo! wasn't mentioned yet - I think that was pretty good sound-wise, and with less compression it could be even better. On the other hand, Paxman ruined the live songs from Montreux on the bonus disc - the CD from the CD/DVD package sounds much better. Haha damn I didn't know that he was involved in the mastering as well. I still feel that the Francis-produced songs on QPQ is better. Compression isn't an enemy if you use it right. An example of when it's not used right is on the snare on Cut Me Some Slack - great album that though There’s a snare on Cut Me some Slack? ?
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Post by sqcollector on Oct 17, 2020 12:44:15 GMT
As you seem to have quite an interest in the studio side of things sqcollector, with Arsis studios in mind, I thought you may like to know that 'Just Supposin' had been mixed at the Marquee with the exception of 'What You're Proposing'. It was an experiment of sorts to try mixing 'What You're Proposing' in Francis's Arsis loft studio. No automation and very limited outboard on an old Soundcraft compared to the SSL Consoles which were all the rage at the time. Against those odds, Rossi and John Eden nailed it and nearly a second No.1 in the charts if it hadn't been for Babs Streisand! Ah very interesting! I do like how What You're Proposing sounds. I find it very warm and natural.
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Post by sqcollector on Oct 17, 2020 12:49:26 GMT
I'm not sure why Bula Quo! wasn't mentioned yet - I think that was pretty good sound-wise, and with less compression it could be even better. On the other hand, Paxman ruined the live songs from Montreux on the bonus disc - the CD from the CD/DVD package sounds much better. I confess I was waiting for someone to mention Bula Quo ahah The sound is not bad, indeed. I find it a bit hollow here and there. If you focus on the guitars, you notice they are a bit noisy, lacking a bit of body. Might just be me, though. On the other hand, the RAOTW Bula Edit on the second disc (which is just the Riffs version edited) demonstrates how horrible the previous Mike Paxman produced albums sound. Some of the live tracks from CD2 are just poorly remixed...
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Post by sqcollector on Oct 17, 2020 12:53:29 GMT
Leon - who I think is a great drummer and has really nailed it live - said on Instagram he recorded all his parts for Backbone in 2 days, without the band I think. So that’s what, 7 tracks a day playing in isolation. That doesn’t sound like a recipe for a fantastic performance across an album. Yes, this doesn't help. One thing is playing solo, but with the involvement of others. Other is to just play isolated, laying down the drum tracks and be done with it. It's like I was saying earlier: you don't need to play live in studio to make an album sound lively. You lay the first tracks, but then you should go back, possibly re-recording them to the rest of the instruments, to make yours fit. Because no one likes all the instruments playing at the same time feeling like everyone is playing alone. The drums on Backbone feel a bit like that; the drums sound like they are there to provide some base for the rest of the instruments; as in they are not part of the song themselves. A shame, because Leon live shows it could have been better.
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